israeli army terrorists murder innocents again

[ratewhore]

That just shows the stupidity of those who went...

Reminds me of the peace bus that drove to Iraq during the second gulf war, when that misunderstood lovely man Saddam used them as human shields...

[lilelvis2000]

Re ImaDinnerJacket's quotes

I think you have to distinguish between what a Western liberal means by ending Zionism and what an Islamist means by ending Zionism. The liberal usually means he wants an end to what he sees as an oppression of Palestinians, Islamists like Dinnerjacket wants the end of the Jewish state and the incorporation of Jews into an Islamic/Arab state where (after a few decades of revenge attacks) they will be able to live in peace provided they go along with the second class status that Islamic states accord to others.

Funny how its okay that Jews treat Arabs as second class citizens though.

[NotAllThere]

Actually the Israeli's took everything but the clothes they had on. ...

Bleeding heart bloody liberals.

Funny how its okay that Jews treat Arabs as second class citizens though.

Er no. That's wrong as well.

[lilelvis2000]

um er no I don't think it is
Second-class citizens in their own country - Telegraph

BBC News - Q&A: Israeli Arabs

and What is their status in Israel?
Israel defines itself as both Jewish and democratic, but some argue it is impossible for it to be both without discriminating against non-Jews.
The Israeli government says Israeli Arabs are citizens with equal rights - although their "civic duty" differs as they are exempt from compulsory military service.
It points out that Israel's Declaration of Independence promises equality for all.
But one Israeli-Arab MP has described Israel as "democratic for Jews and Jewish for Arabs" and Israeli Arabs frequently describe themselves as "second class citizens".
The Orr Commission, a government inquiry, concluded in 2003 that "government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory".
And the US state department says Israeli Arabs face "institutional, legal, and societal discrimination".

[xoggoth]

Quite agree. The state of Israel is a theist state in all but name and probably the very worst thing is that Arabs can lose their land if they do not visit withing a given period. Quite atrocious and one of the laws that the US, the only country with any real influence, should be pressuring them to change.

However, it is one almost theist state among all the genuinely theist states in the world, every other one of which is Islamic. Is the treatment of Arabs in Israel worse than that of Copts in Egypt, of Ahmadis in Pakistan, of almost any unislamic minority in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Northern Nigeria or the Maldives? Is it even worse than the treatment of others in so-called moderate states like Malaysia when Muslims are legally pitched against non muslims? No it isn't, not by a long shot.

It is inevitable that a country that has faced others demanding its extinction since it began will have areas of the law where it has become heavy handed and even repressive and maybe some should look at the decline in civil liberties in our own country during world war 2. Nevertheless, by comparison with many Muslim states, Israel is a remarkably democratic nation. If the threats to its existence ever end it may well improve. You cannot say the same of Islamic states whose laws flow from the backward, disgusting and irrational creed that guides them.

[NotAllThere]

um er no I don't think it is...

You think it's right? Shame on you.

Or did I miss the silent "the Israelis think" before "its okay that Jews treat Arabs as second class citizens though." in the sentence "Funny how its okay that Jews treat Arabs as second class citizens though.".

[lilelvis2000]

You think it's right? Shame on you.

Or did I miss the silent "the Israelis think" before "its okay that Jews treat Arabs as second class citizens though." in the sentence "Funny how its okay that Jews treat Arabs as second class citizens though.".

Sorry. i thought you were disagreeing with my assertion. Hence the link to indicate that they are second class citizens.

Two wrongs don't make a right. If Israel wants to expouse itself as the "only democratic country in the middle east" it needs to do it for everyone. not just Jews. One look at their immigration and naturalisation policy will show you that they are hardly democratic.

[BolshieBastard]

Me, I was so upset, that I fast from 10pm last night to 7am this morning.

This is how I understand it:

1. The Egyptians and Israelis implemented a blockade of Gaza, in response to Hamas terrorism. This is legal.
2. A group of people calling themselves "Peace Activists" took it upon themselves to illegally breach the blockade.
3. Their ships were boarded by Israeli forces as they tried to breach the blockade. This is also legal.
4. The peace activists attacked armed soldiers with knives, iron bars and such like. This is suicidal.

Israeli action may have been disproportionate, immoral, highly unadvised, what you will. But not illegal.

The people who organised these ships have as much blood on their hands as the IDF. They deliberately provoked a confrontation with the IDF, in order to gain maximum bad publicity for the Israelis, and have achieved that beyond their wildest dreams.

Goodness me.

You really are seriously deluded with this statement "The people who organised these ships have as much blood on their hands as the IDF. They deliberately provoked a confrontation with the IDF, in order to gain maximum bad publicity for the Israelis."

[NotAllThere]

Goodness me.

You really are seriously deluded with this statement "The people who organised these ships have as much blood on their hands as the IDF. They deliberately provoked a confrontation with the IDF, in order to gain maximum bad publicity for the Israelis."

"If you think contrary to what I think, you're deluded". I often think that, but tend not to use it in a discussion.

Do you really think that the IDF don't have blood on their hands then? I mean, sure, they were attacked as they enforced a legal blockade, and so had a right to defend themselves, but they really cocked up badly. They should never have got themselves into position where they had to defend themselves. Very negligent. Possibly criminally negligent - which would make it manslaughter.

No, no matter how much you personally attack me, you'll never get me to believe that the IDF haven't got blood on their hands over this. Unless... maybe... just maybe... you used reasoned argument?

[lilelvis2000]

There are allegations and smuggled photos of "kill lists" which the commandos were carrying. Autopsies of the Turks indicate that some were shot in the back and one was shot five times from close range.


Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close range | World news | The Guardian

Israeli blood on their hands - most definitly!