So much for going down the plumbing route

[AtW]

Quite who you are to judge how much other people should earn is beyond me.

I am the guy who pays money (not in this case) - I am fully within my rights to decide if some quote is a rip off and even though it may not be possible to get better deal due to price fixing and local monopolies, I am still within my rights to b1tch about it.

I am pro-market, however it is clear that market forces do not work in this instance - price difference in some professions are way too high, example are solicitors, plumbers and it used to be IT - but post .CON dumpened rates so they are not as strikinly different to average salary in the country.

I mean, ffs, solicitor that I used charged me £100 per hour, but she actually earned no more than £30k per year. Economic laws suggest that so long as its market economy that someone will setup firm that will still pay £30k per year, but charge £30 quid per hour, thus win clients and take market share.

It happened in IT - rates dropped due to competition (FTVs and outsourcing), however it does not happen in plumbing and legal profession - clearly they are not competitive.

[AtW]

Could it be because your calculation sucks dead wombats?

I have a few known variables here:

1) Quote - £200
2) Task - put new carpet (old one removed) into utility room - 3 sq meters at most

I may be a g33k now, but I did a lot of DIY work with my dad - I helped him build 2 houses and I have rough idea about how long it takes to put a new freaking cheap carpet into 3 sq meter rectangle - 1 hour most, but I was generous to have allowed 2 hours.

[The Master]

I have a few known variables here:

1) Quote - £200
2) Task - put new carpet (old one removed) into utility room - 3 sq meters at most

I may be a g33k now, but I did a lot of DIY work with my dad - I helped him build 2 houses and I have rough idea about how long it takes to put a new freaking cheap carpet into 3 sq meter rectangle - 1 hour most, but I was generous to have allowed 2 hours.

Seeing as you are all in favour of free markets and are a bit of a Mr Fixit yourself, why don't you put in a more competitive tender for the job and tell your mate you'll do it for £150?

Thing is, you have fundamentally misunderstood the task. To Mr Fixit, it isn't "replace small carpet", it's "turn down £200 for a full day's work on site somewhere to dick around with a piss pot job replacing some bit of carpet".

[expat]

I am the guy who pays money (not in this case) - I am fully within my rights to decide if some quote is a rip off and even though it may not be possible to get better deal due to price fixing and local monopolies, I am still within my rights to b1tch about it.

I am pro-market, however it is clear that market forces do not work in this instance - price difference in some professions are way too high

You say you are pro-market but it doesn't look like you understand the market. The point is that if income available is relatively high, then more people will take up that profession and so bring the price down. You could perhaps say "market forces do not work in this instance" if there is a high barrier to entry, especially an artificial barrier. But if it's just that a guy wants to charge more than you want to pay, but you can't find somebody to do it at your price, then that is the market price.

The market is working, you just don't like it.

The market is not a moral judgement, it's an unconscious mechanism.

[AtW]

To Mr Fixit, it isn't "replace small carpet", it's "turn down £200 for a full day's work on site somewhere to dick around with a piss pot job replacing some bit of carpet".

No.

Mr Fixit comes from an Ltd that does lots of small things locally, its stuff like that - replace carpet.

[AtW]

The point is that if income available is relatively high, then more people will take up that profession and so bring the price down.

Exactly - falling rates or much improved products are the sign of competitive market. IT hardware is a good example - more bung for the same buck every year.

What about solicitors and plumbers in this country? Do they have price deflation? Of course not - prices go up, which clealy shows market is not competitive - artificial or other barriers prevent competition from happening, fking Govt should have cracked down on it long time ago.

[The Master]

No.

Mr Fixit comes from an Ltd that does lots of small things locally, its stuff like that - replace carpet.

So what? If it isn't his issue then it's his employer's issue that he'd rather have his bloke doing a full day's work for £200 than half a day and the rest of the day wasted for £30. If they are doing lots of work, then clearly lots of people are happy with the pricing structure.

Why not quote for the job yourself?

[AtW]

If they are doing lots of work, then clearly lots of people are happy with the pricing structure.

Have you studied economics? Are you aware that if market is not competitive then people don't have choice? The fact that people pay the rates does not mean they are happy with pricing structure!

[The Master]

Have you studied economics? Are you aware that if market is not competitive then people don't have choice? The fact that people pay the rates does not mean they are happy with pricing structure!

Nah, I know feck all, me.

You're right. As always.

[AtW]

Nah, I know feck all, me.

Here is what I know:

a) prices for services like plumbing are notoriously high

b) these prices don't deflate, even though price deflation rampart elsewhere (including IT)

A competitive market would have resulted in enterpreneurs moving in to win market share by reducing costs of labour - this happened in IT with FTVs and outsourcing - but this does not happen in plumbing/legal/some others.

Conclusion is that these markets are not-competitive and thus should be subject to regulation of prices and/or making sure that markets become competitive.