16000 votes

[cailin maith]

*makes a note to remind CM on Friday afternoon.*

Thanks Dave - don't worry, I'll give him what for!!

[Paddy]

You can blame labour for a lot of things, but one thng you cant blame them for is a gobal financial crisis that started in the US and is affecting the entire world to a greater or lesser degree.

Even the Conservatives hav'nt tried that. They may have been criticising Labours plans to deal with it but they havn't blamed them for it, because they know damn well the same thing would have happened if they had been in power.

It is not a “Global financial crises” and certainly not a Global recession. Even Turkey is in 6% growth, China did not go into recession and is still in growth. Global cash has to be somewhere and at the moment the cash in not in the hands of the US or the UK. Labour had many opportunities to put money aside for a rainy day, instead they spent it for their own political agenda including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. As Sadam said, If the US wages war on Iraq; it will bankrupt the US economy. Gordon Brown was greedy, the more tax he gained, the more he wanted. People were borrowing money by credit card not for luxury items but to pay for council tax. Banks stopped being banks and instead gambled with money while playing pass the parcel with toxic debts wrapped up in fancy paper. “Global financial crises” defiantly not but on cause in the UK by government greed and liking the arse of the US.

[DodgyAgent]

I went to school under the Tories! And uni too.

Seriously though you are a victim of your life and times, I just think Capitalism is grossly unfair and Socialism/Communism in it's social form is a laudable goal most likely due to my circumstances in my formative years.

But I do know Capitalism works and Communism doesn't, just doesn't stop me dreaming!

It is interesting how so many people are locked into this utterly discredited way of thinking. On paper (which is all that can be said of it) yes socialism is idealistically "fairer". In practice it will only ever work according to the highest common denominator of what society wants and does. It never works because it has no natural market forces to naturally check and balance to improve the lives of people within its society. Socialism in practice creates a degenerative spiral of existence.

Capitalism is the foundation of civilised society, it is what creates wealth. On paper it seems unfair, yet it does not tolerate people being reliant upon others (which is fairer to me than a society that expects everyone else to support each other). It does however create wealth and in practice (which is all that matters) it is far more virtuous than socialism

The world has been manipulated by people like you and Polly Toynbee to believe that the concept of socialism is "good". As a consequence we have been locked into unquestioning acceptance of the state and its socialist institutions as benign and caring entities.

I accept that capitalism is one dimensional and does not take into account the weak and is therefore not perfect. Socialism however offers no protection to the weak, it instead exploits them. The trick which no one seems to want to debate is in how wealth should be redistributed to the benefit of all. The socialists do not want to discuss this because their power base relies upon the existence of people who are dependent upon socialist institutions.

So if you think for a minute that just because you sympathise with socialism you are somehow a better person for it then you are quite wrong.

[Churchill]

It is interesting how so many people are locked into this utterly discredited way of thinking. On paper (which is all that can be said of it) yes socialism is ideally "fairer". In practice it will only ever work according to the highest common denominator in order to remain true to what it does. It never works because it has no natural market forces to naturally check and balance its operation. left like this then it will be degenerative spiral of creating a society where everyone depends on everyone else. Socialism is therefore left to the control of people to make it work, and I cannot see any positive examples of it having done so anywhere.

Capitalism is the foundation of civilised society, it is what creates wealth. On paper it seems unfair, yet it does not tolerate people being reliant upon others. It does however create wealth and in practice (which is all that matters) it is far more virtuous than socialism

The world has been manipulated by people like you and Polly Toynbee to believe that the concept of socialism is "good". As a consequence we have been locked into unquestioning acceptance of the state and its socialist institutions as benign and caring entities.

I accept that capitalism is one dimensional and does not take into account the weak and is therefore not perfect. Socialism however offers no protection to the weak, it instead exploits them. The trick which no one seems to want to debate is in how wealth should be redistributed to the benefit of all. The socialists do not want to discuss this because their power base relies upon the existence of people who are dependent upon socialist institutions.

So if you think for a minute that just because you sympathise with socialism you are somehow a better person for it then you are quite wrong.

Oi F**k off and start your own thread! I only started this thread to have a go at the Lib-Dem nonentities.

[Gibbon]

You can blame labour for a lot of things, but one thng you cant blame them for is a gobal financial crisis that started in the US and is affecting the entire world to a greater or lesser degree.

But Gordon said "No more boom or bust".......

He used this to justify spending up to the hilt in the good times instead of building up a warchest. That to me is his mistake. Seven good years, seven bad etc.

[Churchill]

But Gordon said "No more boom or bust".......

He used this to justify spending up to the hilt in the good times instead of building up a warchest. That to me is his mistake. Seven good years, seven bad etc.

Joseph!

[DaveB]

Call-me-Dave was warning about the ‘credit card economy’ back in 2005, in parliament. Brown just said ‘you don’t know what you’re talking about’. OK, so the banking crisis was perhaps due to the coming together of lots of circumstances, some of which were due to British lax supervision. But, Labour ran deficits during growth years, which meant that Britain had nothing in reserve when the tulip completed its unavoidable journey toward the fan.

Virtually every government since the 60's has run a deficit of some degree or another. Todays deficit in terms of %tge GDP is actually smaller than that run up by the last Conservative government in the mid 90's.



UK Budget Deficit as Percentage of GDP.

[stek]

So if you think for a minute that just because you sympathise with socialism you are somehow a better person for it then you are quite wrong.

No, actually I feel ashamed. Cos I do what we all do here, fuk over whoever I can and grab the cash, and yeah, I feel guilty but not guilty enough to give any back....

But i do prefer to imagine a world in the near future where everything is made by machines and we all have the things we need, and more and no need to fuk each other over for a percentage, like we do now.

But there will always be people wanting more even tho they've got enough, more than enough, but they still want more. Roman Abramovich, BT, EDS, Oracle, pots of money but still want more. Grim isn't it?

I well remember speaking to some old biddies in Petr, they preferred the Soviet days cos tho' they didn't get paid much, what they did get was almost 100% disposable, on nowt much I agree, but they had free housing, light and power etc, transport, all free, ur wage was to spend on urself. Still crap i know but sth to aim for rather than this dog-eat-dig-till-we-die mentally we have now?

And I'm as guilty, I can't stop striving for more, but for me it's an internal struggle, almost Roskolkovian, I see myself as an exception, which is wrong, well wrong. Napoleon and Hitler thought the same.

Capitalism creates wealth (for some) tis true, but only by taking it off someone else. The way the World is soon there will be no-one to take it off, the native have got brains. Witness Indian outsourcing.

[d000hg]

Here you go. Conservatives hung by just 16,000 votes - Times Online

Hope it helps but you might want to take your blinkers off first and put your penis away while you're reading it, that way you won't be classified as a total w4nker.

What blinkers? I'm blinkered because you think everyone's an idiot who doesn't agree with you? I didn't express any opinion other than that you're a bit of an arrogant child... which is hardly blinkered.

[Churchill]

Virtually every government since the 60's has run a deficit of some degree or another. Todays deficit in terms of %tge GDP is actually smaller than that run up by the last Conservative government in the mid 90's.



UK Budget Deficit as Percentage of GDP.

Not according to the office of national statistics...

National Statistics Online - UK Government Debt & Deficit

Btw, some text to go with your graph

In 1997 Labour inherited a budget that was actually in balance. After a turbulent decade, the public finances had finally been brought under control. But after four years in office Gordon Brown took out the country's credit card and let rip. By the end of 2009-10 our annual deficit had ballooned to £170.8 billion.

So, which bit don't you understand?