Take an extra second to reflect on 2005

[Chico]

ALM so you only count experiences with Jesus if it was in the flesh? Have I met Jesus Christ in the flesh - no? How comes he has changed my life or the lifes of countless billions of people in the world. Why do true believers celebrate Christmas, ever heard of a birthday party for a dead person? No Jesus is alive, he defeated death and resurrected and appeared to 550 people. He also appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus and then appeared to Ananias (also in Acts 9),maybe you just think Jesus Christ was a morally upright man and he was no Son of God with supernatural powers. Well then there is no debate to had.

[sasguru]

I've had similar visions once when I drunk too much pastis in France.
Also go into any mental care facility and pick a random person - I'm sure you'll get many equally beautiful and/or ugly visions.
The only difference is that the ones you quote were written down and understandably believed by the poorly educated populace of the time.

[Fungus]

I've had similar visions once when I drunk too much pastis in France.
Also go into any mental care facility and pick a random person - I'm sure you'll get many equally beautiful and/or ugly visions.
The only difference is that the ones you quote were written down and understandably believed by the poorly educated populace of the time.

If someone today claimed to be the Messiah, or to have the word of God, they would be carted off to the local funny farm. The Middle East seems to have been stuffed to the gills with people making such claims.

Maybe the next prophet will be an accountant from Birmingham ...

Fungus

[Lucifer Box]

Maybe the next prophet will be an accountant from Birmingham ...

Or a video shop assistant from Manchester, perhaps? I can highly recommend the excellent The Second Coming to anyone. Extremely talented stuff from the pen of Russell T. Davies and starring Christopher Eccleston in his pre-Dr Who days.

[Chico]

Well actually there is a test you can apply to anyone who claims to be God or the Messiah and surprise surprise Jesus Christ was who he said he is.

Statistics and Probability

[Fungus]

Well actually there is a test you can apply to anyone who claims to be God or the Messiah and surprise surprise Jesus Christ was who he said he is.

Statistics and Probability

You'd love "The Chariots of the Gods" by Erich von Daniken. It's right up your street.

I can respect those who believe in a God, and take the bible for what it is - a semi-historical document full of contradictions but with a philosophical message - rather than a statement of fact which it is not.

Fungus

[Fungus]

Well actually there is a test you can apply to anyone who claims to be God or the Messiah and surprise surprise Jesus Christ was who he said he is.

Statistics and Probability

Oh God I've just taken a look at that link. What a pile of twaddle. It does not deserve a second look. It's at the level of creationism nonsense.

Fungus

[Fungus]

Or a video shop assistant from Manchester, perhaps? I can highly recommend the excellent The Second Coming to anyone. Extremely talented stuff from the pen of Russell T. Davies and starring Christopher Eccleston in his pre-Dr Who days.

I missed that. Looks worth a look though. Fungus.

[Lucifer Box]

I missed that. Looks worth a look though. Fungus.

Well worth a look, Fungus. Whatever your take on religion it's a thought provoking piece of drama of the quality largely lacking today.

[OwlHoot]

But if part of the bible was written by a person with Temporal Lobe Epilepsy or some other condition, why do you beieve it? Medical care and knowledge was quite poor around Jesus time and there were probably quite a few mentally ill people wandering the streets. BTW Saul/Paul's behaviour before he had his "epiphany" was hardly rational, suggesting he wasn't all there in the first place.

I know you only mentioned it as an example, but Julius Caesar had epilepsy, and most people have little trouble believing his account of the Gallic Wars. Alexander the Great, Napoleon Bonaparte, and Charles Dickens were also epileptics. It doesn't usually affect mental powers, although it can be a progressive condition and dull the intellect eventually.

But if Saul had been clumped on the side of the head by a burly enraged ex-fisherman, wielding a sword with all his might, with enough force to damage Saul's ear inside his helmet (see my post above), I dare say he could have had quite bad concussion with symptoms lasting on and off for several months, which I think was roughly the interval between the crucifixion and Paul's conversion.

BTW I forget who wrote Revelations, but having read bits of it - it is the ramblings of a profoundly mentally ill person.

John of Patmos, and it was touch and go that Revelations was included in the Bible. See Book of Revelation

B.A. Robinson of the Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance says that Revelation portrays "a very different picture of God than we see described in the synoptic gospels. There is no love for one's enemies. There is only bitterness, hatred, and a desire for revenge." [2] Protestant founder Martin Luther considered Revelation to be "neither apostolic nor prophetic" and stated that "Christ is neither taught nor known in it"

Revelations was written in the late 60s AD, just before the first Jewish revolt, which the Romans crushed with great slaughter and destruction. See http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_wars/jwar03.html So it's not surprising John believed he was living in "end times" (which Jesus had foretold BTW, and all Christians at the time believed was imminent) and wrote apocalyptically as a result.

Hey, hang on, why am I doing Chico's job here? He should be posting explanations like this.