Offshoring - The Moral & Economic Case

[pzz76077]

I don't believe the war is over. I don't think we even fought!

'Onshoring' of Indian national is economically insane. That's a basis for action govt can understand.

There is an existing law in place which can be tightened.

Laws are often changed in response to dogged pressure groups We don't have one but if we did it would be possible.

How about a Brit going to work in Belgium, Germany etc?? Should we stop that?? Or are the Brits OK to do what the Indians aren't??

Where you were come from or where you work has no relevance in this globalized world we live in and that has been the case for 10 or 15 years now.

What would you say to Microsoft, Cisco etc that have moved much of their workforce to places like Ireland because its cheaper than employing US workers. Should we stop that as well??

If you look at the bigger picture you will see that on/offshoring is just a tiny part of the puzzle and that your argument is simply pointless if you ignore all of the other elements.

PZZ

[phil5476]

How about a Brit going to work in Belgium, Germany etc?? Should we stop that?? Or are the Brits OK to do what the Indians aren't??

Where you were come from or where you work has no relevance in this globalized world we live in and that has been the case for 10 or 15 years now.

What would you say to Microsoft, Cisco etc that have moved much of their workforce to places like Ireland because its cheaper than employing US workers. Should we stop that as well??

If you look at the bigger picture you will see that on/offshoring is just a tiny part of the puzzle and that your argument is simply pointless if you ignore all of the elements.

PZZ

As I said in the OP I'm not against private individuals moving or Indian firms drawing business to India.

[pzz76077]

As I said in the OP I'm not against private individuals moving or Indian firms drawing business to India.

Are Indians not private individuals, whatever that means??

Whats your point then exactly??

PZZ

[AtW]

Are Indians not private individuals, whatever that means??

Countries within EU or USA have varied costs of living but they are not THAT varied - effectively when some players arrive from country where they don't have to include in cost taxes, pensions, health and safety, decent pay that enables workers to have decent life etc, then the differential in pricing is so huge that it will have devastating competitive effects.

That's why manufacturing in the West went down the tuliphole, not all but in the UK it is pretty much decimated - all too easier to outsource you see.

Consequently the question should not be about whether it's indians or Americans, question should be whether particular activity is in the long term interests of the country or West in general. If it's not then such activity should be discouraged - with high taxation and long jail sentences if necessary.

On the other hand what should be encouraged is getting clever foreigners to work in this country, so that they get the same cost base as everyone else here and appreciate decent lifestyle in country where police does not make you give them bribes and stuff.

Under this model Brits going to Europe to contract isn't a problem, and same the other way around, including Americans coming over here or to Ireland, fine. It's not a problem also (in my view) to have someone like me in this country - much better than if I was outside in a low cost country doing some software for fraction of the cost, that would undermine system far more.

[Tarquin Farquhar]

Countries within EU or USA have varied costs of living but they are not THAT varied - effectively when some players arrive from country where they don't have to include in cost taxes, pensions, health and safety, decent pay that enables workers to have decent life etc, then the differential in pricing is so huge that it will have devastating competitive effects.
...
Under this model Brits going to Europe to contract isn't a problem, and same the other way around, including Americans coming over here or to Ireland, fine. It's not a problem also (in my view) to have someone like me in this country - much better than if I was outside in a low cost country doing some software for fraction of the cost, that would undermine system far more.

Hear hear.

[AtW]

What suprises me is that IT contractors/permies who get asked to transfer their knowledge to new employee whoever they are actually agreed to it: if I was in this position I'd certainly resign (and claim constructive dismissal if it was permie job) or claim breach of contract as I would be contracted to do the job, not to transfer my knowledge to 3rd party unless this is written in contract.

Such transfer, if agreed, would obviously cost a LOT more then just doing the job.

When I had my work permit in this country my job was paying £35k, which was good money out of London for a permie IT job in retail world, it certainly wasn't massively undercutting local folks - some of the goods one were paid less than me actually, which was embarrassing to be honest.

[phil5476]

Are Indians not private individuals, whatever that means??

Whats your point then exactly??

PZZ

In this context a private individual is someone who has come here independent of any offshoring company.

Ask yourself whether the economic bullet points in the OP apply to a PI and you will get my point.

[Clippy]

I don't believe the war is over. I don't think we even fought!

'Onshoring' of Indian national is economically insane. That's a basis for action govt can understand.

There is an existing law in place which can be tightened.

Laws are often changed in response to dogged pressure groups We don't have one but if we did it would be possible.

Maybe for the IT industry, but for other industries, e.g. defence, no.

It's all part of the bigger picture of globalised international trade - some industries lose, others gain.

[phil5476]

What suprises me is that IT contractors/permies who get asked to transfer their knowledge to new employee whoever they are actually agreed to it: if I was in this position I'd certainly resign (and claim constructive dismissal if it was permie job) or claim breach of contract as I would be contracted to do the job, not to transfer my knowledge to 3rd party unless this is written in contract.

Such transfer, if agreed, would obviously cost a LOT more then just doing the job.

When I had my work permit in this country my job was paying £35k, which was good money out of London for a permie IT job in retail world, it certainly wasn't massively undercutting local folks - some of the goods one were paid less than me actually, which was embarrassing to be honest.

But this work permit simply entitled you to be treated the same as any UK worker right? If so presumably you negotiated a good salary and the local folks didn't. Nothing structurally wrong there.

[AtW]

It's all part of the bigger picture of globalised international trade - some industries lose, others gain.

Which industries gained a lot in the UK?

Even pharma is going now - I can't blame them because taxation levels in this country are ridiculous especially given euro zone, English speaking Ireland next door.

And before you say - financial baloon of hot air isn't an industry, it's a hazard, ticking time bomb, the enabler of many processes that resulted in destruction of solid manufacturing base in this country.