Maggie was right

[AtW]

What? The choice of how to insure yourself against the myriad threats to your health and which risks to leave out is not 'strategic'? Getting ill for years is not something to be taken lightly.

Most people don't have much choice in it - even with vouchers: best doctors, best schools are in specific places (say Oxford), you'd have to move there and have money to actually have a choice.

Business taxation is pretty strategic too, especially given that small businesses are needed for creating jobs.

Indeed, but that's not exactly choice Govt gives to people.

Anyway, do you feel that you, yourself, are capable of deciding whether to take on a mortgage?

Yes, I am capable. I've proven it by not jumping onto mortgage bandwagon when everyone else was doing it left right and center.

[AtW]

You bigot. I find that remark deeply insulting because the good Lady Tester and I have lived on a low income, and you are suggesting that that made us less capable of taking financial decisions.

No you idiot, I said very clearly - "People who live on low incomes are less capable to deal with serious financial troubles - having huge debt is a BIG trouble just waiting to happen."

How many people in this country can deal with sudden need to spend £10k? That's big amount of money even for middle classes, but people on low income by definition will have even smaller buffers helping them manage hardship.

If they have got mortgage it would make things even worse - they can be kicked out of the house! Thats where subprime tulip came - these people were sold mortgages they could not have afforded and lost their houses! At least having a place to live in is something.

[Tarquin Farquhar]

As ever with IT people everything has to be black or white. If it isnt then it either confuses or forces you to be irrational in order to fit into a box.

I am not saying that rented houses are automatically trashed and nor am I saying that "owned" houses are palaces. I am saying that if something is owned it is much more likely that the owner will look after it, better than if it is rented.

0 or 1. Professional habit.

[DodgyAgent]

The choices you mention are not strategic (apart from schools maybe, but in reality people don't have much choice there even with vouchers) - getting into mortgage debt for 25-30 years is strategic choice that should not be taken lightly.

People who live on low incomes are less capable to deal with serious financial troubles - having huge debt is a BIG trouble just waiting to happen.

This is the doctrine upon which communism was built. The assumption that no individual should be allowed to make any decision for himself. It morphed into totalitarianism whereby the state came along and made those decisions for people. It is interesting that you should leave that country , come here, set up a business, con some poor idiot into lending it money espouse the policies of the country you fled from as virtuous.

[Mich the Tester]

How many people in this country can deal with sudden need to spend £10k?

I don't know, but I know who they are; they are people who either have a good income, or people who have sensibly saved money and used their freedom to manage their finances prudently. That can include people who have a mortgage; people who took out a mortgage that is within their means.

You work from the assumption that people can't act sensibly with their finances. I think most people can. Even if most people can't, I can, and I want the freedom to continue to do so without the government taking away my choices or raising my taxes to pay for their own incompetent management of the public finances.

[Mich the Tester]

This is the doctrine upon which communism was built. The assumption that no individual should be allowed to make any decision for himself. It morphed into totalitarianism whereby the state came along and made those decisions for people.

The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich Hayek. Good stuff.

[AtW]

This is the doctrine upon which communism was built.

And what is your doctrine when you call perfectly capitalism investment decision foolish etc?

It is interesting that you should leave that country , come here, set up a business, con some poor idiot into lending it money espouse the policies of the country you fled from as virtuous.

Where exactly I said Russia is virtuous? I don't like living there, it's certainly not perfect from many angles, including business.

I was certainly conditioned by the Soviet system, but I broke that conditioning and won't accept any propaganda anymore - this include Thatchers.

[DodgyAgent]

No you idiot, I said very clearly - "People who live on low incomes are less capable to deal with serious financial troubles - having huge debt is a BIG trouble just waiting to happen."

How many people in this country can deal with sudden need to spend £10k? That's big amount of money even for middle classes, but people on low income by definition will have even smaller buffers helping them manage hardship.

If they have got mortgage it would make things even worse - they can be kicked out of the house! Thats where subprime tulip came - these people were sold mortgages they could not have afforded and lost their houses! At least having a place to live in is something.

The sub prime tulip came from lending money to people who could not afford to pay that moneyt back. Just as the dot com collapse came from investors lending (sorry investing) other people's money to businesses with little or no revenue streams-just like yours.

Whether it is an individual or a business (which in your case is a one man band disguised as a business) they were both bad investments. I would suggest that someone with a regular job, with a £30,000 mortgage on a £100,000 property is a darn site better and more sensible option than pi**ing it into some dreamworld fantasy of a complete nutcase.

[Moscow Mule]

The sub prime tulip came from lending money to people who could not afford to pay that moneyt back. Just as the dot com collapse came from investors lending (sorry investing) other people's money to businesses with little or no revenue streams-just like yours.

Whether it is an individual or a business (which in your case is a one man band disguised as a business) they were both bad investments. I would suggest that someone with a regular job, with a £30,000 mortgage on a £100,000 property is a darn site better and more sensible option than pi**ing it into some dreamworld fantasy of a complete nutcase.

Say what you think Dodgy, don't hold back or let the truth get in the way of a good rant...

[DodgyAgent]

0 or 1. Professional habit.