Billy Bragg

[Mich the Tester]

Of course socialism creates wealth it is just interested in distributing it as well.

Every system has inefficiencies, however I will not believe that just because we do not achieve 100p value in the pound that we should stop trying to help those who are less than able to help themselves.

No, but when I see that tax revenues are being spent on a multi gajillion euro glass skyscraper complex in Amsterdam for the benefits office, equipped with marble bogs and limos for the senior civil servants (I kid you not) and at the same time I see people begging on the streets every day my belief in this wonderful socialist ideal of giving the state the power to spend the money my efforts have produced is somewhat dented. It ceases to look like 'inefficiencies' and looks to me more like theft, sorry, extortion.

[DodgyAgent]

Of course socialism creates wealth it is just interested in distributing it as well.

Every system has inefficiencies, however I will not believe that just because we do not achieve 100p value in the pound that we should stop trying to help those who are less than able to help themselves.

An example please of where socialism creates wealth? and then show where it creates wealth effectively.

[BlackenedBiker]

No, but when I see that tax revenues are being spent on a multi gajillion euro glass skyscraper complex in Amsterdam for the benefits office, equipped with marble bogs and limos for the senior civil servants (I kid you not) and at the same time I see people begging on the streets every day my belief in this wonderful socialist ideal of giving the state the power to spend the money my efforts have produced is somewhat dented. It ceases to look like 'inefficiencies' and looks to me more like theft, sorry, extortion.

I agree 100%, however we are talking primarily about a philosophy. I believe in this. However I believe much less strongly in humans...

[Mich the Tester]

An example please of where socialism creates wealth? and then show where it creates wealth effectively.

Cuban cigars.

They make them quite well too.

It won’t finance a country though, and it’s mostly capitalists that smoke them.

[BlackenedBiker]

An example please of where socialism creates wealth? and then show where it creates wealth effectively.

Nazi Germany: sad but true.......

[Mich the Tester]

Nazi Germany: sad but true.......

How much wealth did they create and how much did they steal from others who had already created it?

[DodgyAgent]

Cuban cigars.

They make them quite well too.

It won’t finance a country though, and it’s mostly capitalists that smoke them.

That is an interesting example of where the dynamics of capitalism have been applied to work within a communist envirionment (usually it is only the balck markets that work effectively under totalitarian rule). This is driven by pride from the government and the fact that they smoke them themselves. I will bet however that the production of these cigars is terribly inefficient.

[BlackenedBiker]

How much wealth did they create and how much did they steal from others who had already created it?

An awful lot actually through their public works schemes, it is how they consolidated power......

[Mich the Tester]

An awful lot actually through their public works schemes, it is how they consolidated power......

But they attracted capital to invest in public works and machinery by stealing money and property from the Jews. Capitalists attract capital by persuading investors and lenders that they have a good business case. I know which I prefer.

In most businesses, the ‘adding value’ bit is actually easier than the ‘attracting capital’ bit. Which brings us back to the banks, who still aren’t lending.

[DodgyAgent]

An awful lot actually through their public works schemes, it is how they consolidated power......

public works schemes use wealth and at best enable wealth creation but they dont create wealth.