Billy Bragg

[original PM]

Has it not occured to you that these bankers happen to be very good at what they do but that the system is wrong. after all these bankers like you and I do not work with one eye on a bigger picture that is of no concern to us within the context of what we do.

According to your argument anyone working for these banks prior to the financial collapse should be punished (and in order that we are consistent here-according to your -what there is of it- logic we should include the IT contractors who developed and implemented the IT systems that enabled the collapse). This seems to be the way your mind seems to work.

I tend to think that the buck stops with directors of the banks and the governement for developing and sustaining a flawed banking system. Once the systemn is fixed then get the bankers back (and the IT contractors) to operate it, pay market rates and move on.

Guess what if we dont move on in this country and instead choose to pander to the petty envies of you, Billy Bragg and his vast army of psychophants then another country will happily accomodate the financial markets.

Ok why not nothing much else to do

1) The system is flawed - so they are rewarded for that.

2) The bigger picture - surely anyone who is at a relevant level in any organisation has to have an eye on the bigger picture - it's kind of what they are paid for.

3) My point was not that we should punish all people in banks my point was that the directors (as you say) should be held responsible for their actions.

4) Where would the financial markets move to?? surely they can only exist if they have customers - I suppose there are many other countries in the world where a financial centre could exist which does not already have one? If so please can you name them?



Oh and at Mich - if you don't know where it is there is a probably a reason for that ( maybe!!!! lol)

[BlackenedBiker]

So in order to be competitive why shouldnt the "nationalised banks" be allowed to pay market rates for their staff? Presumably if the general public (taxpayer) is allowed to set rates of pay according to their own prejudices (as opposed to market forces) then they shouldnt complain when their bank fails.

I sometimes wonder why people are so incapable of being logical.

The issue is the central banks have caused the banks to perform well over the last year, not the talent of the investment bankers. That was the point of QE and almost 0% interest rates on bank lending from state exchequers around the world.

They have literally had to sit in their offices and do nothing for the past year and the figures are brilliant.

Now they are trying to suggest that they use tax payers money to pay bank bonuses when they are massively in hock to the state.

That would seem somewhat unfair, wouldn't you say.

How is that for logical DA? Maybe you should be less dogmatic about your position and consider every situation on it's merits. This is not an issue of social persuasion it is an issue of fairness, I would suggest.

[Doggy Styles]

So are we all agreed that Billy Bragg is a hypocritical, champagne socialist?

I've never liked the bugger.

[Mich the Tester]

Firstly I maintain we need credit flowing to businesses again.
Secondly I think the system is f**ked and needs sorting out. Trouble is, you need clever people to fix the system and move to something more stable; those clever people will not come cheaply, so you need to be able to compete with salaries offered by other banks.

Somewhere lower down the list of priorities should be the bonuses and pay issue. I find it somewhat immoral that directors who should have known they were taking irresponsible risks have received huge sums of money, but just taxing the bonuses isn’t going to fix the problems and might even get in the way of sorting things out.

[DodgyAgent]

Ok why not nothing much else to do

1) The system is flawed - so they are rewarded for that.

2) The bigger picture - surely anyone who is at a relevant level in any organisation has to have an eye on the bigger picture - it's kind of what they are paid for.

3) My point was not that we should punish all people in banks my point was that the directors (as you say) should be held responsible for their actions.

4) Where would the financial markets move to?? surely they can only exist if they have customers - I suppose there are many other countries in the world where a financial centre could exist which does not already have one? If so please can you name them?



Oh and at Mich - if you don't know where it is there is a probably a reason for that ( maybe!!!! lol)

When you are developing an IT system for a bank do you have "an eye for the bigger picture"?. In fact how could you begin to even understand how what you do sits within the bigger picture or is even legal? Secondly you are now backtracking and applying your punishments only to executives.
New York ,Geneva, Zurich, Dubai, Singapore, Frankfurt or any other major city would bend over backwards to take London's share of the financial markets.

and By the way I think I am safe in saying every system is flawed

[Mich the Tester]

So are we all agreed that Billy Bragg is a hypocritical, champagne socialist?

That's just stating the bleeding obvious, so yes. Rich socialist = hypocrite. QED

[Doggy Styles]

So are we all agreed that the government that Billy Bragg supports is at fault for not policing bankers properly any more?

[Mich the Tester]

and By the way I think I am safe in saying every system is flawed

Yes. In fact many systems are actually just big flaws with a couple of workarounds added to make them appear useful.

[BlackenedBiker]

That's just stating the bleeding obvious, so yes. Rich socialist = hypocrite. QED

So you can't be wealthy and also believe in the intervention of the state to ensure support for those unable to support themselves to a minimum level as defined by the majority of the electorate??

Strange notion....

[BlackenedBiker]

So are we all agreed that the government that Billy Bragg supports is at fault for not policing bankers properly any more?

Way to have a consistant argument. Spend 20 posts saying don't get involved in bankers behaviour, and then this.

Bravo and please accept this think before I type award