Iranian leader denies Holocaust

[AtW]

And would you want an unstable country led by extremist religious fanatics (Iran) on your doorstep building nuclear weapons?

Are you talking about Israel and their 100+ nukes?

I sure don't like Iran having nukes, but neither I want Israel having any of them too - the fact that Israel have them and others are not allowed fuels the problem.

[Fungus]

Are you talking about Israel and their 100+ nukes?

I sure don't like Iran having nukes, but neither I want Israel having any of them too - the fact that Israel have them and others are not allowed fuels the problem.

The one thing that Israel is not is unstable. You (and I) might not like the brutal treatment of people in the occupied territories (and the discrimination against Israeli-Arabs inside Israel), but they are democratic (within Israel), they are unified and they do allow free speech. They have numerous groups openly criticising the settler movement without fear of persecution by the state. In 50 years they created from scratch a modern industrial economy, with world class universities such as the Weizzmann Institute.

Whereas Iran is fruitcake central. (Literally. Iranian nuts and dried fruit are world famous.) Write a book and you can be condemned to death.

Although there are respected commentators who argue that Israel should not have been created (and I have sympathy with that view), the place is now home to millions of people who were born there, and the sort of statements being made by the leader of Iran are what you expect from anti-semites of the worst kind. Next he'll be saying that Jews are parasites. Or did he already say that?

Fungus.

[AtW]

Israel is run by religious nuts of the other kind - their only saving grace is that they appear to have satisfied their appetite of occupation and don't plan on taking over other countries, just want to keep what they have taken. If it was not for nukes I would not have cared, but the fact that ISrael have got LOTS of nukes drives nuclear ambitions of states like Iran.

Personally I am against ANY weapons support given to ANY non-Western state - especially building nuclear reactors for them.

[Not So Wise]

They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets,

The first part of that statement is just plain false propoganda aimed at the local equivilant of "sun and daily sport" readers.

The second is actually pretty close to the truth, Israel has for far to long harped on about the holocaust, sure it was dreadful, sure a hell of a lot of innocent men,women and children died, sure the world should do their best to make sure it will never happen again (they will fail, hell already have, Look at pol pot or in the various african countrys) BUT it was not the worst extermination in modern history (got just about 2 decades before to the belguims in north africa for worse) AND it was 70 plus years ago!!! Those who were alive and old enough to even think about doing anything about it are few and far between these days.

It's long past time for Israel to shut up about it, before even more of the world decide they no longer give a damn.

[AlfredJPruffock]

[QUOTE=snaw]

Fascinating if you invert the text above ....


1. The current regime in Israel would happily destroy Iran if it believed that, once it launched its nuclear weapons, it could get away with it and keep its Oil.

2. Iran would therefore be entirely justified, morally and legally, in attacking and destroying Israeli nuclear installations if it believed it could get away with it.
QUOTE]

Can't say I agree there Alf. Israel would have no need to attack Iran if that country wasn't actively involved in terrorist attacks on it's own country, and also in the process of developing nuclear weapons with a leader running around saying the holocaust never happened and that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map.

No matter what your politics on Israel as regards the palestinians, you can't seriously be suggesting some sort of justification for Iran's actions of late. Actually you could, but then again I've had you filed under nutter for a long time so maybe you can empathise with Mahmoud in a way the rest of us can't.

Well SB you should read my post again; didnt you notice, of all people; the ubiqutous

If you didnt then I can only say

[Fungus]

The first part of that statement is just plain false propoganda aimed at the local equivilant of "sun and daily sport" readers.

The second is actually pretty close to the truth, Israel has for far to long harped on about the holocaust, sure it was dreadful, sure a hell of a lot of innocent men,women and children died, sure the world should do their best to make sure it will never happen again (they will fail, hell already have, Look at pol pot or in the various african countrys) BUT it was not the worst extermination in modern history (got just about 2 decades before to the belguims in north africa for worse) AND it was 70 plus years ago!!! Those who were alive and old enough to even think about doing anything about it are few and far between these days.

It's long past time for Israel to shut up about it, before even more of the world decide they no longer give a damn.

The Jews can argue that they have been persecuted more systematically than any other group except perhaps Gypsies. At one point we expelled them all from England, and pogroms were common place in Europe. Many countries were only too willing to help the Nazis exterminate the Jewish population (and steal their property).

It could be argued that we are to blame. We controlled the Mandate of Palestine from 1917 to 1948 when the state of Israel was declared. We promised a state to both the Jews and the Arabs, and reneged on the promise to the Arabs. We allowed systematic immigration into Palestine of hundreds of thousands of Jews, during the 20's and 30's, creating a foothold of settlements, against the wishes of the Arabs. They bought land 'legally' and established formal institutions. (That sort of organisation towards a common goal seems beyond the Arabs.) And after the holocaust we prevented entry to Palestine. Is it any wonder that the Jews migrated from camps in Europe where they were ignored by the West, to Palestine and then actively attacked the British troops in Palestine to establish a Jewish state? They probably thought "Stuff you, we've seen what happens if we don't stand up for ourselves, so we are going to fight."

Sorry to be boring.

Fungus.

[hugebrain]

Why Israel?

I read that the British were losing WW1 so they invented a scam with the Jews where they pretended that the Germans had sunk some American ship. In return for tricking the U.S. into the war, Britain had to give them Israel.

Is this the true story or is there an alternative? I don't really buy the "we persecuted them for millennia and suddenly felt a bit guilty" line.

Seriously, what is the official story?

[AtW]

Seriously, what is the official story?

Have you seen photographs of dead people in Nazis concentration camps? Perhaps you need to hold skulls of millions gassed jews in order to believe in that its not special effects?

[hugebrain]

Have you seen photographs of dead people in Nazis concentration camps? Perhaps you need to hold skulls of millions gassed jews in order to believe in that its not special effects?

Not really fair of you to ask me since you know I'm not in a position to discuss this freely (Although I did see the faked Yugoslavia picture of the camp with the guy behind barbed wire - we do have form for making this sort of stuff up).

I think the question I was asking predates the whole WW2 thing. I just wondered what the official explanation was for why we have Israel?

[Not So Wise]

I think the question I was asking predates the whole WW2 thing. I just wondered what the official explanation was for why we have Israel?

Why do we have Israel? Simple question not so simple answer.
Jews have been hated thoughout history for mainly two reasons, first off they were/are a closed, easly recognisable group, they are different to those around them (not so much now but used to be very different) and you cannot join them. Other main reason was they were affluent, mainly due to how they operate, helping each other and and sending each other buisness (sometimes in preference of someone better who was non jewish).

Nothing really wrong with any of this, just natual to help your own first, but never be susprised if the rest of the world starts to hate/resent you for it. When you create a "them and us" don't be susprised when "them" try to kill you

Also many going into money lending definitely did not help either as a King who owes you money will do anything to get rid of you and your people.

Now as to the Holocaust, it was real, it was bad, but was it unique? Not really. Only thing that really makes it stand out was it was the first of it's kind to happen during the era of mass communications, media and cinema. It shocked the world who up until that point were able to distance themselves from the truth about war and other things. The western world goes into collective feelings of guilt and disgust at mankind

Only one problem though, for the same reasons as always people still don't like and envy the jews.

Then someone comes up with clever idea to form Israel, jews invade, take it over, world leaders go
"yah, a solution to the jewish problem, they get a country (we might be even able to say 'we gave them one' by recogniseing them) and hopefully all the jews over here will leave to go there. What about the people that were already there you ask? Bahh who cares about a bunch of raghead camel jockys? It's not like they have or ever will have any power or influence or be able to do anything about it"

And thus the stage was set for todays world.