I'll bet they were glad to have a firearm at home to defend themselves

[Ardesco]

It's not about crime - it's about freedom to at least die (if that comes to it) with arms in your hands rather than begging for mercy from people who deserve to be shot.

In that case why do you need a pistol?

It is quite legal to own a shotgun if you have applied for a license and fitted a secure shotgun cabinet into your home. It is quite legal to own a variety of axes that you could keep under your bed/pillow. You could even own a large array of swords (although I believe curved ones may be an issue now) which are normally kept suspended on various walls around your house. how about a divers knife in the bedside cabinet (again quite legal and would cause a hell of a lot of damage if used for the wrong reasons).

Do you really need a pistol to add to the above list?

If you do, does it have to be a live pistol, most people don't know the difference between blank firers and real pistols. That should be enough to scare them off, especially if you shoot it in their general direction.

To be honest I really don't understand why you are getting so up tight about it, there are lots of options available to you if you really want them....

[Board Game Geek]

In that case why do you need a pistol?

To be honest I really don't understand why you are getting so up tight about it, there are lots of options available to you if you really want them....

Very good point. (Pun intended)

We have a choice of weapons to deter attackers. The replica Egyptian dagger, the modern Prague fencing foil, a 3 foot blunt gothic sword, a sharp gothic dagger, several walking sticks (one with a spike for walking on ice) and Halo's farts.

I tell ya, they are doomed right from the get go.

[Gonzo]

Out of curiosity, how many posters on here have either been attacked by criminals in their own home, or know someone who has?

The system worked pretty well before Dunblane - that crazy would have gotten guns elsewhere or used axe or something, people were trusted just fine with firearms in this country - look at homicide stats before the ban: firearms were used in 4-10% of all murders, go ban knifes (or give life sentence for illegal possession), but don't pick on legitimate gun ownership because it was not causing problems.

I am not sure why you are fixated on this because I don't think that the changes are as big as you seem to think.

IIRC - there have been two "crackdowns" over the years.

The first, after the Hungerford massacre, meant that the public could no longer own semi-automatic weapons (the public were never permitted fully automatic guns).

The second, after the Dunblane massacre, meant that the public were no longer permitted to own handguns.

I think that is how it panned out, although I might be wrong.


Mr Gonzo senior has always been a gun enthusiast. We lived near to several military ranges where he could shoot targets and relatives own farms so he had permission to wander around vast parts of Dorset and Kent shooting animals.

Over the years he has been mightily pissed off about having to give up some of his guns that are no longer legal, I think he has to have his firearm certificate application supported by a "professional person" now, I believe the Police will now put more effort into checking that you do have somewhere legitimate to use the weapon(s) than they used to, but other than that I don't think there have been the huge changes you seem to think there has been.

[RichardCranium]

Can someone with a superior knowledge of probability step and and verify this? - it doesn't seem right to me. By this logic, I only have to keep doing the lottery and getting the wrong numbers each week in order to be sure of winning - don't the odds stay the same?

Yes and no.

If you buy a ticket, it's 14 million to one.

A week later and that 2nd week's ticket will also be 14 million to one.

But, across the two weeks that was 14 million to two.

So, if you play the lottery for 14 million weeks, the odds are pretty damn good that at some point in that period you will win the big one: 14 million chances at 14 million to 1. (Because luck is not a lady, it is no guarantee. You might win it twice whereas I won't win it at all.)

That is a slight oversimplification but it will do.

Meanwhile, on week 14,000,001 the chances of that ticket winning the big one will be 14 million to 1.


Now taking AtW's burglar example:

Let's say 15% of good law abiding citizens own firearms and by that I mean they are trained to use them.

A criminal attempts his evil bidding, first time it happens there is 0.15 probability he will confront someone with a firearm, thats 0.85 probability he won't.

If criminal continues their behaviour - 2nd attempt would mean that his chances of NOT meeting someone with firearm will be 0.85*0.85=0.72, 3rd try - 0.61, and after 4th it will be: 0.52, or almost 50-50.

That last sentence should read:

If criminal continues their behaviour - across 2nd attempts his chances of NOT meeting someone with firearm will be 0.85*0.85=0.72, across three attempts 0.61, and across 4 attempts it will be: 0.52, or almost 50-50.

Personally, I expect the burglar to do what most burglars do, which is rob houses when they appear to be unoccupied or make sure they don't wake the occupants. Then, just as now, the burglar should be able to manage hundreds of burglaries before finally being caught and sent down or shot.

[AtW]

Cowards.

This explains why British Empire is no more.

[FarmerPalmer]

In that case why do you need a pistol?

It is quite legal to own a shotgun if you have applied for a license and fitted a secure shotgun cabinet into your home. It is quite legal to own a variety of axes that you could keep under your bed/pillow. You could even own a large array of swords (although I believe curved ones may be an issue now) which are normally kept suspended on various walls around your house. how about a divers knife in the bedside cabinet (again quite legal and would cause a hell of a lot of damage if used for the wrong reasons).

Do you really need a pistol to add to the above list?

If you do, does it have to be a live pistol, most people don't know the difference between blank firers and real pistols. That should be enough to scare them off, especially if you shoot it in their general direction.

To be honest I really don't understand why you are getting so up tight about it, there are lots of options available to you if you really want them....

You can own a shotgun, rifle or pistol - you just have to have good reason for the last two and personal security is not good reason apparently (even though our bill of rights says it is) for most people, unless you are (or have been) an MP or an agent of the government.

[FarmerPalmer]

Very good point. (Pun intended)

We have a choice of weapons to deter attackers. The replica Egyptian dagger, the modern Prague fencing foil, a 3 foot blunt gothic sword, a sharp gothic dagger, several walking sticks (one with a spike for walking on ice) and Halo's farts.

I tell ya, they are doomed right from the get go.

but as soon as you use it you will be committing an offence and will be locked up and the burglars will be let off and allowed to sue for compensation (if they live)

[AtW]

You can own a shotgun, rifle or pistol - you just have to have good reason for the last two and personal security is not good reason apparently (even though our bill of rights says it is) for most people, unless you are (or have been) an MP or an agent of the government.

It's bollox.

Self defence is not good reason but killing cute fluffy creatures is?

Just how the **** this country ended up deciding that self defense isn't a good reason?

If you are so effing tolerant then you should tolerate me easily

[FarmerPalmer]

It's bollox.

Self defence is not good reason but killing cute fluffy creatures is?

Just how the **** this country ended up deciding that self defense isn't a good reason?

If you are so effing tolerant then you should tolerate me easily

Yep - grey squirrels are my favourite quarry - taste good too

[AtW]

Yep - grey squirrels are my favourite quarry - taste good too

************!

Ban all farmers now!!!