I'll bet they were glad to have a firearm at home to defend themselves

[gingerjedi]

I can't argue with that.

AtW is right. He should be allowed his own personal choice in the sanctity of his own home. That's his domain, so his rules.

How do you stop him taking his 'personal choice' onto the street or next door when a neighbour pisses him off?

All the vetting and training in the world can't account for 'red mist'.

[FarmerPalmer]

Though I understand that special umbrellas are available, that, for a fee, either shoot 41 magnum or alternatively little pellets covered in ricin.

There we go, that should wake someone up.

normally shotgun cartridges but illegal in the UK

[Board Game Geek]

How do you stop him taking his 'personal choice' onto the street or next door when a neighbour pisses him off?

All the vetting and training in the world can't account for 'red mist'.

The law as it stands should do that, if indeed you feel it necessary to restrict another persons right to protect themselves outside their own home, which you clearly do.

Within his own home however, no one should be theory be able to restrict his right to defend his life and property.

I'm sorry but I just do not feel it is my right nor business to tell someone on their own property what they can and cannot do.

(and please, no stupid comments like "Well then BGG, should he be able to host Voodoo Ceremonies and Eat Dead Babies covered in Marmite then, if you advocate he can do what he likes on his own property", since that's not in the context of what we are discussing here. I add this because I know there are one or two posters on the board who use this style of counter-argument to deviate/subvert a discussion.)

[Tarquin Farquhar]

Ah the old "hot burglary argument" again. This could equally well be explained by America's supposedly longer working hours and fewer holidays, or the fact that they have no discernable welfare state so people have to go out more. America isn't the UK - such comparisons are entirely bogus.

53% vs 12% is a lot of longer working hours....

[Tarquin Farquhar]

The law as it stands should do that, if indeed you feel it necessary to restrict another persons right to protect themselves outside their own home, which you clearly do.

Within his own home however, no one should be theory be able to restrict his right to defend his life and property.

I'm sorry but I just do not feel it is my right nor business to tell someone on their own property what they can and cannot do.

I suppose that the problem is that government in the UK does not accept the existence of "your own property" in the same sense as you do. To them, when you are in your own home, you are still part of the society that they rule, so their rules still apply.

[Diver]

The law as it stands should do that, if indeed you feel it necessary to restrict another persons right to protect themselves outside their own home, which you clearly do.

Within his own home however, no one should be theory be able to restrict his right to defend his life and property.

I'm sorry but I just do not feel it is my right nor business to tell someone on their own property what they can and cannot do.

(and please, no stupid comments like "Well then BGG, should he be able to host Voodoo Ceremonies and Eat Dead Babies covered in Marmite then, if you advocate he can do what he likes on his own property", since that's not in the context of what we are discussing here. I add this because I know there are one or two posters on the board who use this style of counter-argument to deviate/subvert a discussion.)

I have guns (Shotguns). if my home was invaded, they could shoot the wife, rape the dog and rob me blind before I could get the guns and cartridges out of the cabinet

Hence the bottle of spray de-icer and the Iron bar (Poker) I keep handy.

Keeping a firearm at home requires that it be kept locked up securely, or are you (ATW) advocating that people keep weapons unsecured and handy for any child or burgler to get their hands on.

[gingerjedi]

The law as it stands should do that, if indeed you feel it necessary to restrict another persons right to protect themselves outside their own home, which you clearly do.

So the law should prevent people from getting angry? In the UK disagreements often end with nothing more than bruised ego's and embarrassment, I'm happy to keep it that way.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs09/hosb0209.pdf

A gun was involved in 53 of the 763 homicides recorded in England and Wales for the 12 months up to 4 November 2008, most were gang or drug related.

Sensible drug laws would be a better option if you want to prevent most burglaries.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Please answer my question on CS gas above.

People in USA are armed because they have balls to deal with risks of firearms - it is no suprise that they are the new empire now and UK isn't.

That's easy - if CS gas was legal every chav and football hooligan would be using it every day as a routine weapon.

People in the USA are armed becuase historically they had limited law enforcement and settled their differences by killing each other. Not much has changed except that they more unhinged ones massacre schoolmates and co-workers. Not something we really need more of here - as I said, the USA isn't here - and the claim that they "have more balls" is offensive and untrue. You speak of empire as if it was a good thing - I don't agree.

[AtW]

Keeping a firearm at home requires that it be kept locked up securely, or are you (ATW) advocating that people keep weapons unsecured and handy for any child or burgler to get their hands on.

If you are at home and you think current is unsafe then unlocking the gun seems in order so long as it remains within your house (unless you have license to bear arms on the street).

[AtW]

That's easy - if CS gas was legal every chav and football hooligan would be using it every day as a routine weapon.

Oh how terrible that would be - those dirty footbal hooligs will use CS spray and make people cry... so let's ban it so that women won't have anything to defend themselves against rape - let's just give them a whistle so that they could use it to attract attention...

Banned CS or pepper gas is INSANITY - classifying them as "firearms", it just shows how retarded UK firearm laws are.