Oh Dear

[Dundeegeorge]

No one is arguing with that

But using the 'honest guv...I thought she wanted it' defence is completely wrong.

What if your out with the wife, who is looking particulary foxy, and while she's at the bog some drunk feels her up?

Or...your daughter has just turned 15, and while at a friends house having a sleep over drinks too much cider and passes out on the couch only to wake up to find some @rsehole with his fingers in her pants.

No means no...and if you can't say no because your drunk, then presume no.

Completely agree that non-consensual sex is rape. full stop. period. no argument. no excuse. no justification.
the point is that we're not all me or you. i would like to be able to leave my wallet and house keys, ipod, cd's etc in my car with the doors open
in the town centre and come back to it a few days later to find nothing had been touched, and someone might even have closed the door for me to keep the rain out. however we both know that wouldn't happen.

[The Lone Gunman]

I understand the fact that we dont live in a perfect world, but if we are willing to accept these ideas then we are lost. Our women will all end up wearing Burkhas for fear of being raped and then accused of asking for it.

Just because the powers that be fail to prosecute properly does not mean that any of us should put change our moral stance. A woman who dresses provocatively or who is drunk is not offering herself up for sex and nor should there be any attempt to justify that she is/was.

[PerlOfWisdom]

If I bought a "state of the art" flat screen TV with the best surround sound system etc etc....Would that mean I was provoking Burglary??

I think not!

If you left it in your front room, with the light on and the front door open all night, then probably yes.

[Phoenix]

If you left it in your front room, with the light on and the front door open all night, then probably yes.

You twat!
So you'd agree that a woman who dresses nice and has a drink, is leaving her front door open?

[The Lone Gunman]

Gentlemen, try a little role reversal here.
I assume that when you go out for a decent night out, or even just for a quiet drink, you try to look your best? (I know you are techy nerds so a little imagination may be required)
You do your hair, put on some nice aftershave and wear you best threads. Then you get a little drunk and everyone becomes your mate, you may even get to the "your my best mate you, I love you" state with a complete stranger.
Should HE turn out to be gay would he be justified in taking you home and buggering you six ways till Tuesday?

[Dundeegeorge]

OK, i've got it

Gentlemen, try a little role reversal here.
I assume that when you go out for a decent night out, or even just for a quiet drink, you try to look your best? (I know you are techy nerds so a little imagination may be required)
You do your hair, put on some nice aftershave and wear you best threads. Then you get a little drunk and everyone becomes your mate, you may even get to the "your my best mate you, I love you" state with a complete stranger.
Should HE turn out to be gay would he be justified in taking you home and buggering you six ways till Tuesday?

You're a civil servant aren't you? My guess is you're a community safety officer for some Labour-controlled borough somewhere. No, these things don't happen, there's no need to take sensible precautions. Absolute looney utopianism, I expect you don't bother to tell your children to look before crossing the road, after all it's never justified to run over a child so therefore it never happens.

IT'S NOT ABOUT JUSTIFIED, NO ONE IS APOLOGISING FOR IT BUT TO PRETEND IT DOESN'T HAPPEN IS A BAD BAD BAD IDEA.

[PerlOfWisdom]

You twat!
So you'd agree that a woman who dresses nice and has a drink, is leaving her front door open?

I probably don't agree with much said by anyone who calls a complete stranger a twat.

However. There's no excuse for it but there are some seriously bad people out there. Women who dress up nice and look good are doing it to attract their ideal man and maybe they don't think about the fact that they are also attracting all the sh1theads as well. If anything happens to them, it's not their fault for dressing provocatively, but they need to be aware.

[The Lone Gunman]

You're a civil servant aren't you? My guess is you're a community safety officer for some Labour-controlled borough somewhere. No, these things don't happen, there's no need to take sensible precautions. Absolute looney utopianism, I expect you don't bother to tell your children to look before crossing the road, after all it's never justified to run over a child so therefore it never happens.

IT'S NOT ABOUT JUSTIFIED, NO ONE IS APOLOGISING FOR IT BUT TO PRETEND IT DOESN'T HAPPEN IS A BAD BAD BAD IDEA.

Oh well we might as well abondon all our commitments to upholding the law then, better yet abondon the rule of law altogether eh! After all, most people could have taken better precautions couldnt they.

Obviously, these things happen, but that should NOT allow us to think that it is OK in any way shape or form. The same as I do not believe other crimes should be ignored or justified in some way.
The fact that 33% of the populace believes some women are in some way responsible for their own rape means that 33% would sit in a court of law and not uphold justice.

[Phoenix]

I probably don't agree with much said by anyone who calls a complete stranger a twat.

However. There's no excuse for it but there are some seriously bad people out there. Women who dress up nice and look good are doing it to attract their ideal man and maybe they don't think about the fact that they are also attracting all the sh1theads as well. If anything happens to them, it's not their fault for dressing provocatively, but they need to be aware.

Mr Perlofwisdom,

I somehow feel you are trying to sit firmly on the fence.
You say
"Maybe they don't think about the fact that they are also attracting all the sh1theads"

Dressing in a certain way, in no way should be confused with gagging for an Ideal or Sh!thead sort of bloke.

If a woman walks down the road naked, and says No....it means fricking NO!

[FrankScribe]

If I bought a "state of the art" flat screen TV with the best surround sound system etc etc....Would that mean I was provoking Burglary??

I think not!

That rather depends on whether you advertise to the world in general that you have these desirable worldly possesions and that they may be readily accessible to anyone who desires them.

Presumably you take the precaution of locking your doors and windows and may even have an alarm fitted.

That being said, I do not condone rape in any form.