We are being watched

[Payload Bollington]

I used to think going from the US to the UK was like escaping from prison. Damn, these days it's the other way round? How have you guys let it come to this?

[NotAllThere]

...
England has gone from being one of the most liberal and private countries in the world, to one of the most controlled and spied-upon.

Well, if you will vote Labour.

[RichardCranium]

It didn't start then. Personally I remember well the Jamie Bulger case. When it was solved with CCTV footage, I remember thinking Oh Bugger, that's CCTV here to stay.

That was one of the three.

The Soham murders meant a summer of the papers going on and on about "think of the children" and "no expenditure is too great if it saves one child from coming to harm". That gave the excuse for national databases.

That Twin Towers malarkey got the ID cards ball rolling.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Well, if you will vote Labour.

Bollocks - although they are the current worst offenders, other parties (notably the Tories) have supported this kind of tulip. Both Thatcher and one M Howard were in support of ID cards at particular points - now the Tories are officially opposed but only because they have noticed how unpopular ID cards are and how much worse it will get. The real threat is from civil servants including the Police - they love your partisan commments because they can get on with building the surveillance state whilst you're busy slagging Labour.

[RichardCranium]

I used to think going from the US to the UK was like escaping from prison. Damn, these days it's the other way round? How have you guys let it come to this?

jail
Goddammit or some other Merkinism

You are no good at sockpuppetry, try another approach, please. Pretty please.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

That was one of the three.

The Soham murders meant a summer of the papers going on and on about "think of the children" and "no expenditure is too great if it saves one child from coming to harm". That gave the excuse for national databases.

That Twin Towers malarkey got the ID cards ball rolling.

Very interesting re: Soham and typical of how Civil Servants and Politcians can spend millions addressing the wrong problem. Many people (including a particularly ignorant Labour peer) pointed to the fact that Huntly used different names and extrapolated that into a "need" for the government to tell us all what our name is and charge us a licence fee to use it in future. In fact, Huntley supplied totally bogus references for the job he was given and nobody followed them up - if they had, they would have known something was wrong. Lord Bichard, who chaired the investigation, expressed concerns last week about the cack handed way his recommendations have been applied. But ultimately it's because there are enough authoritarians and thick "if you have nothing to hide" twats about along with people who don't give it a second thought.

[TinTrump]

Very interesting... But ultimately it's because there are enough authoritarians and thick "if you have nothing to hide" twats about along with people who don't give it a second thought.

WHS.

When there are mass demos, e.g. against invasion of Iraq, the Gov trots out the line that is takes hard, unpopular measure because they're (supposedly) 'right'. I'm pretty sure it then justified ID cards, for a number of ever changing reasons, on the basis they were 'popular'.
IMO, any party in government too long loses the plot.
And don't look at me; I never voted for this shower.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

It didn't start then. Personally I remember well the Jamie Bulger case. When it was solved with CCTV footage, I remember thinking Oh Bugger, that's CCTV here to stay.

I had a ahem....debate with her indoors about CCTV at the weekend. We were watching Police Camera gotcha you slaaaag or something similar - she's all busy extoling the virtues of CCTV. I pointed out that we couldn't watch these crimes if CCTV had eradicated them. I admit the CCTV makes crimes easier to solve, but there ain't a lot of evidence to suggest it stops crime.

[minestrone]

I had a ahem....debate with her indoors about CCTV at the weekend. We were watching Police Camera gotcha you slaaaag or something similar - she's all busy extoling the virtues of CCTV. I pointed out that we couldn't watch these crimes if CCTV had eradicated them. I admit the CCTV makes crimes easier to solve, but there ain't a lot of evidence to suggest it stops crime.

People who are caught bang to rights with CCTV will usually plead guilty thus taking pressure off the police, legal aid, witnesses and the court system to pursue a prosecution.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

People who are caught bang to rights with CCTV will usually plead guilty thus taking pressure off the police, legal aid, witnesses and the court system to pursue a prosecution.

No quibble with that at all - my point is that it doesn't seem to stop them doing the evil deeds in the first place. I think it's important to understand what these things are for and what they can and can't do.