Enamelled Poppy - Worn by N Griffin

**The Lone Gunman** · 19 July 2009, 09:23

Originally posted by Menelaus View Post

Some of you may have noticed that Nick Griffin has continued to wear the poppy symbol of the Haig Fund / Royal British Legion. I've written to their Press Office overnight (long story, didn't get to sleep).

Whether you agree with the approach or not, feel free to copy the text below.

Sirs:

Irrespective of my feelings towards the BNP and your policies, I am concerned that your leader seeks to obtain some form of credibility through his use of the RBL / Haig Fund enamelled logo; to such an extent that RBL were forced to take display advertising asking him to stop - which was, it appears, ignored.

This might be your first time in something approach a representative government but I would recommend that you remind Mr Griffin of the following:

1. All political careers end in failure

2. Mr Griffin seems to fail to recognise that the character of Francis Urquhart as written by Michael Dobbs was, in fact, a fiction - rather than a role model

If your leader has the temerity to continue to wear this symbol (the irony of which is not lost of former soldiers such as myself) I would recommend the following actions:

1. BNP to refund RBL cost of display advertising

2. BNP members and staff to commission their own logo form to be worn as a lapel pin

Should you be tempted to consider this the "rantings of an unbalanced liberal" it is my belief that no politician should wear the poppy logo unless they are a former member of service personnel: personally, I would prefer to restrict it further to those who, like me, have seen active service and bear the wounds (physical or otherwise) of such service.

I look forward to seeing no members of your party wearing such logo.

Menelaus

Sorry Men, have to disagree with you there.

The poppy is a symbol of remembrance for all the fallen (not just ours either).
The wearing of the poppy is a mark of respect for those who laid down their lives.
It is one of the few symbols available to all on an equal footing.
The political persuasion of the wearer should not matter, it is the remembrance and respect that matters.
It is also significant of the support the public give to the troops. These days we hear regularly that the troops feel ignored or worse by the public.
When you see someone wearing a poppy (I have an enamal one on my jacket all the time) you know they respect the forces for what they are, what they do and what is ask of them. How then can you ask that someone should not wear one.

The poppy symbol should not be owned by anyone. You have no right to decide who can and can not wear it. Nor can you presume to know the reasons why individual does so.

**Menelaus** · 19 July 2009, 09:50

Originally posted by The Lone Gunman View Post

Sorry Men, have to disagree with you there.

The poppy is a symbol of remembrance for all the fallen (not just ours either).
The wearing of the poppy is a mark of respect for those who laid down their lives.
It is one of the few symbols available to all on an equal footing.
The political persuasion of the wearer should not matter, it is the remembrance and respect that matters.
It is also significant of the support the public give to the troops. These days we hear regularly that the troops feel ignored or worse by the public.
When you see someone wearing a poppy (I have an enamal one on my jacket all the time) you know they respect the forces for what they are, what they do and what is ask of them. How then can you ask that someone should not wear one.

The poppy symbol should not be owned by anyone. You have no right to decide who can and can not wear it. Nor can you presume to know the reasons why individual does so.

TLG, thanks for the notes.

In a backhanded, but wholly complimentary, way I agree with you. One of my confidential reports stated that I should be considered disabled by my ability to see all sides of every argument.

The enamelled Haig Fund symbol is a rememberance of all who are lost, whether they are the lost amongst us (e.g., those of us who returned from conflicts with bits of ourselves still there (either physically or mentally)), the lost who have known graves (e.g., those being repatriated far, far too regularly from HERRICK) and those who are commemorated amongst other places at the Menin Gate.

Whilst my requested preclusion of BNP may have been a little excessive, this could be perceived to be a commentary on the dangers of our current political system - the triumph of perception over reality.

Speaking personally, TLG, I am grateful that you wear the logo. I don't; I do tears once a year at the Cenotaph and will eventually be one of the old boys who's wearing bling from a conflict that no-one remembers, or cares about.

**RichardCranium** · 19 July 2009, 10:33

Originally posted by Menelaus View Post

I will eventually be one of the old boys who's wearing bling from a conflict that no-one remembers, or cares about.

There are some of us civvies who were brought up to care and to understand.

We are aware of the long, never-ending, stream of duty and sacrifice.

Just 'cos we've never heard of a place and the politicians didn't know where it was at the time either, makes no difference to those of us brought up to show some respect for those who go and those who went.

Some daft young bugger will buy you a pint in exchange for a story or even a chance to show a bit of respect to a medal.

**Menelaus** · 19 July 2009, 10:41

Thanks RC - despite that I occasionally may make light of it, I and many soldiers past and present are greatly appreciative.

For me, going to Cenotaph every November is about a very personal act of remembrance - I go and then just melt into the crowd, the concept of the "grey man".

Seems to be the fairest and best way to deal with my own feelings about it.

**The Lone Gunman** · 19 July 2009, 13:11

Originally posted by Menelaus View Post

Thanks RC - despite that I occasionally may make light of it, I and many soldiers past and present are greatly appreciative.

For me, going to Cenotaph every November is about a very personal act of remembrance - I go and then just melt into the crowd, the concept of the "gret man".

Seems to be the fairest and best way to deal with my own feelings about it.

The Cenotaph is one of the acts of remembrance that I actively avoid.
I have never seen service so will never be invited, but a lot of what I see is a bunch of people being seen to be there.
Obviously, for you and other ex service men or those currently serving it is an entirely different matter, but it all seems somewhat of a circus.
I have personal reasons to remember and do so at places meaningful to me. If the Cenotaph is your place then so be it.
I have been to a lot of the cemetaries on the Mennin Road and stood at the gate for the last post.
My favourite place to be for armistice services is a Scout camp called Great Tower in the Lakes. The on site chapel was built as a chapel of remembrance to the 6 Scouts who built the camp but never came back to enjoy it. Means a lot to the current Scouts (and other ranks) when explained that way too.

I agree Griffin is making political points by wearing the poppy, but the best way to defeat him is not to publicise him for doing so. I would invite him to a service and then park him at a table with all the representatives of "foreign" regiments.

**Menelaus** · 19 July 2009, 13:14

Originally posted by The Lone Gunman View Post

The Cenotaph is one of the acts of remembrance that I actively avoid.
I have never seen service so will never be invited, but a lot of what I see is a bunch of people being seen to be there.
Obviously, for you and other ex service men or those currently serving it is an entirely different matter, but it all seems somewhat of a circus.
I have personal reasons to remember and do so at places meaningful to me. If the Cenotaph is your place then so be it.
I have been to a lot of the cemetaries on the Mennin Road and stood at the gate for the last post.
My favourite place to be for armistice services is a Scout camp called Great Tower in the Lakes. The on site chapel was built as a chapel of remembrance to the 6 Scouts who built the camp but never came back to enjoy it. Means a lot to the current Scouts (and other ranks) when explained that way too.

I agree Griffin is making political points by wearing the poppy, but the best way to defeat him is not to publicise him for doing so. I would invite him to a service and then park him at a table with all the representatives of "foreign" regiments.

Agreed: the commonwealth nations, the Indian regiments, Jamaican squadrons - I'd pay good money to see him look that uncomfortable.

**cojak** · 19 July 2009, 17:01

I find it sad that the military are not able to wear their uniforms IRL. I for one would not allow myself to pass a member without shoving a Starbucks and a biscuit in their hand.

A small gesture (and possibly a little silly) but I would do it every time...

**Menelaus** · 19 July 2009, 17:18

Originally posted by cojak View Post

I find it sad that the military are not able to wear their uniforms IRL. I for one would not allow myself to pass a member without shoving a Starbucks and a biscuit in their hand.

A small gesture (and possibly a little silly) but I would do it every time...

The lads are now and encouraged to when travelling from station to station - it used to be that we had to get changed, put uniforms in a bag, travel, get changed again.

Thanks Paddy. Ya twunt.

**NotAllThere** · 19 July 2009, 20:19

Originally posted by Menelaus View Post

... and will eventually be one of the old boys who's wearing bling from a conflict that no-one remembers, or cares about.

Originally posted by RichardCranium View Post

There are some of us civvies who were brought up to care and to understand.

Well said.

btw I wasn't bought up to care and to understand. I worked it out for myself.

Enamelled Poppy - Worn by N Griffin