First the nationalists, now the communists

[ChimpMaster]

I propose 2 options:-

1) Everyone carry on working and submit most of their income to the government so that it can decide what is best to spend on for the community as a whole. A "benefits" system can be set up whereby people are allocated small amounts money to spend on discretionary items. Those in charge of the system can make up their own rules.

2) Eradicate the monetary system as a whole aka Star Trek style. You live only for the joy of personal fulfilment and enhancement.


I believe we're currently trying out option 1.

[FSM with Cheddar]

I'm no fan of Toynbee (she's a stupid ID card lover for one thing) but that is a hideous misrepresentation of what she said. She pointed out the exponential rise in the earnings multiples from top vs bottom in companies. There is no need for it and no justification other than total venal greed as shown by some MPs

She did say about the difference. But she then went on to say that the only way we could have justice was through equal pay.

I don't have access to video at clientCo, but if someone would like to transcribe her comment, I believe I will be vindicated.

[FSM with Cheddar]

I propose 2 options:-

1) Everyone carry on working and submit most of their income to the government so that it can decide what is best to spend on for the community as a whole. A "benefits" system can be set up whereby people are allocated small amounts money to spend on discretionary items. Those in charge of the system can make up their own rules.

2) Eradicate the monetary system as a whole aka Star Trek style. You live only for the joy of personal fulfilment and enhancement.


I believe we're currently trying out option 1.

You forgot to offer "Compassionate Conservatism"

[DodgyAgent]

You're right it won't fly due to vested interests but wrong to suggest it's only Labour ones.

The vested interests are:

Welfare and the institutions that run it are core sources of labour voters.
The Tories are scared of dismantling or reforming state run "enterprises" for fear of being accused of acting immorally.

What the Tories need to do is explain that having such large numbers of people on incapacity benefit and long term unemployed (incentivised not to work by the benefits system) is in itself immoral.

They need to explain that the deliberate exploitation of the poor by educating them through appalling state run schools is also morally wrong.

The Tories need to invest in an education system that gives ALL kids, rich or poor, thick or bright a proper education that includes sport and the arts

The labour voting welfare industry depends upon people not working. So socialists have a vested interest in ensuring that people receive a sh*te education.

[snaw]

They need to explain that the deliberate exploitation of the poor by educating them through appalling state run schools is also morally wrong.

Now while I agree with your sentiment, which is I'm guessing improve some of the 'appalling state run schools, I'm really concerned you seem to think this is a deliberate ploy to exploit the poor for their votes.

If you genuinely believe this is the case DA then you've got some serious issues.

[sasguru]

The vested interests are:

Welfare and the institutions that run it are core sources of labour voters.
The Tories are scared of dismantling or reforming state run "enterprises" for fear of being accused of acting immorally.

What the Tories need to do is explain that having such large numbers of people on incapacity benefit and long term unemployed (incentivised not to work by the benefits system) is in itself immoral.

They need to explain that the deliberate exploitation of the poor by educating them through appalling state run schools is also morally wrong.

The Tories need to invest in an education system that gives ALL kids, rich or poor, thick or bright a proper education that includes sport and the arts

The labour voting welfare industry depends upon people not working. So socialists have a vested interest in ensuring that people receive a sh*te education.

You seem to suggest a conspiracy theory whereby Labour deliberately set out to destroy the education system. I never believe in conspiracy theories, purely because of the fact that, by Occams Razor, a simpler explanation is always forthcoming.

In this case firstly it was the egalitarianism and anti-elitism that was prevalent in left-wing circles in the sixties that led to the establishment of comprehensive schools and the degradation of grammar schools (which acted as a gatweay to the professions for many working class kids), that is to blame.

And secondly the elevation of polytechnics into "universities" that invented a pile of so-called vocational degrees. This however was done by the Tories in the 90s.

[TimberWolf]

There's a simple way to cure these ills - set the income tax & NI threshold at the NMW (for a full working week/52 weeks a year) and scrap tax credits.

Leave those on benefits £50 a week worse off than those in full time work.

You instantly take millions out of taxation - thereby reducing administration costs to the public & private sectors, and actually give a reason to get off benefits. .

That would still be subsidising rich bosses who pay wages that are too low to live on without state assistance.

[RichardCranium]

Now while I agree with your sentiment, which is I'm guessing improve some of the 'appalling state run schools, I'm really concerned you seem to think this is a deliberate ploy to exploit the poor for their votes.

If you genuinely believe this is the case DA then you've got some serious issues.

It is a widely held belief. I have heard it expressed by friend, family and people at various ClientCos.

[Le Rosbif]

Definition: Communism

Communism is a [religion] political system which aims at making every men equal by making them all equally poor, stupid and alcoholic.

Unfortunately it has not been possible to make every men equally stupid, hence one can say that the reasons behind communism's failure is that it has not been fully implemented.

[Moscow Mule]

They need to explain that the deliberate exploitation of the poor by educating them through appalling state run schools is also morally wrong.

Now while I agree with your sentiment, which is I'm guessing improve some of the 'appalling state run schools, I'm really concerned you seem to think this is a deliberate ploy to exploit the poor for their votes.

As with most things: I blame the parents, not the schools.

Most state run schools in Hounslow are OK. Some are tulip. The ones that are tulip have a high proportion of tulip-bag kids who's parents wouldn't know a days work if it bit them on the arse.