Hillsborough - 20 years on

[snaw]

Exactly !! Then you have to ask why so many were there without tickets.

You go to many football matches?

I dunno how many I've been to without a ticket, in the hope of getting one. whether that be my club, or my country and quite often I do get one - if some fwit opens the gates to the ground, then human nature, and crowd mentality dictates the rest.

You're a real piece of work CB.

[Cyberman]

You go to many football matches?

I dunno how many I've been to without a ticket, in the hope of getting one. whether that be my club, or my country and quite often I do get one - if some fwit opens the gates to the ground, then human nature, and crowd mentality dictates the rest.

You're a real piece of work CB.

I'm actually a season ticket holder this season and have been going to matches for over 40 years, and I never go to a match without a ticket if it is a sell-out, as tickets are not available on the day. Those that went without tickets must bear a share of the responsibility.

[sasguru]

I'm actually a season ticket holder this season and have been going to matches for over 40 years, and I never go to a match without a ticket if it is a sell-out, as tickets are not available on the day. Those that went without tickets must bear a share of the responsibility.

You mean you're over 40?

From your posts I had you pegged out as a 21 year-old wet-behind-the-years bumpkin. What a wasted life.

[cailin maith]

Having lived in Liverpool (albeit only for 3 years), I have experienced first hand, the level of emotion felt by the fans on this issue. And it is pretty incredible. I would make a safe bet that in another 20 years, the feeling will still be the same.

It was an awful tragedy and they deserve to be able to remember it however they see fit.

[snaw]

I'm actually a season ticket holder this season and have been going to matches for over 40 years, and I never go to a match without a ticket if it is a sell-out, as tickets are not available on the day. Those that went without tickets must bear a share of the responsibility.

Complete and utter B0ll0cks, as usual.

Fans of all nations and all clubs turn up without tickets for big games, in the hope of getting one - that's a given and should be planned for accordingly.

In no way can you tag the dead as deserving, or the ticketless as guilty because of inadequate crowd control ,and extremely poor decions by those in charge.

And BTW, since we're on it - I've gotten tickets for World and European cup games, FA cup and big premier league matches by turning up at sell out games without a ticket. Last one was three weeks ago in Holland for the Scotland Holland match ...

[scaramanga]

I know a Forest supporter who was at the game on the day.

He walked past the Leppings Lane end on his way to the Forest end and says that gangs of liverpool supporters without tickets were "steaming" the gates, so the police had no option but to open the exit gate.

Of course there should have been better policing of the pens to move the fans round to the sides. Equally the design of the stadium and ticket distribution were poor, but as tragic as it was for Liverpool fans I don't think they were entirely blameless.

[SallyAnne]

If 1000 people turned up for a train without a ticket, hoping to get one from the station (which is normal), and instead were found to be in a heavy crowd, waded into a jam packed train, which crushed them half to death because of the incompatence of the train company and police...would that be my their fault too?

Even the tiniest amount of blame placed on those fans is a total outrage.

Even if things were done by the police because of "crowds" - even that doesn't mean it was the fans fault. Anyone who has ever been involved in a heavy crowd should know how terrifying it is, and how little control you have over what you do/where you go when you're in it.

[EternalOptimist]

Well I am a scouser, steaming gates was a fact of life in those days. It was possible, if you were lithe enough, to get over or under whilst someone else was going through. The scousers were particularly adept at it.

If I were planning an event like that, I would take it into account, either to prevent it, or to allow room for them, once they had barged in. A few of my mates died that day, a few were real heroes. Very sad.

It was a failure of planning followed by poor decision making

[minestrone]

I have been in a pretty bad crush where police had to open the gates, that was in 1988. In those days stadiums where just not designed well enough, nobody understood crowd dynamics, the police made some total balls ups od decisions and it was standard practice if there was a crush at the gates to open them.

Cybertory you truly are the biggest idiot on this board.

[BoredBloke]

For my 2p - The police take their share of the blame. They opened the exit gates when they shouldn't and they didn't recognise what was happeing inside the pens until it was too late. However that said the Liverpool fans have to take their share. Steaming was common place (wasn't there accusations of it happening in Istanbul also?) and it was at the end of the day, fellow Liverpool supporters who were pushing into the pens. It wasn't the police who did that. I'd like to know how many of those remembering the 96 who tragically died that day, were actually part of the crowd pushing the 96 to the point of suffocation.