G20 Protester dies

[Cyberman]

Oh Dear. It does look like manslaughter then.

[threaded]

No it doesn't:

"Dr Cary's opinion is that the cause of death was abdominal haemorrhage. The cause of the haemorrhage remains to be ascertained."

That is the BBC/Government spin. I was on about the report.

"a blow is very commonly associated with abdominal haemorrhage"

[Grinder]

No doubt the push was savage and undeserved, and most likely would/did cause the death of someone with borderline health issues. Does that make it manslaughter?

I remember my law teacher at Poly saying the 'legal test' would be whether it is reasonable to assume someone of of frail health would generally be present. I think it is reasonable in the case of the protest itself, but he was not a protester, and from the video appears to be fully away from any protesters.

The way he was walking (slowly with hands in pockets), to the eye of a crowd-control policeman may have made him look like he was trying to be cheeky/ difficult. But I bet in the copper's head when he pushed the guy he thought "**** I pushed him too hard".

Its a case of very bad judgement & losing self-control - he should definitely lose his job. I can't imagine pushing someone that hard myself, especially from behind if they are not expecting it. As long as medically they can attribute the cause to the push, it must be manslaughter.

Compare to the whinging woman complaining of a slap in the face & a bash to the leg after swearing & taunting the officer is just looking for publicity - either for herself or to discredit the police who she knows are prone to mistakes in this situation.

The BBC is making it worse as usual by trying to be seen as not covering up the story, when in fact its probably not warranted. Here's a tip - don't go up to police officer in a crowd control situation & start taunting him.

I suspect a large proportion of people who join the forces were bullied at school and react badly to these situations. Its the job of recruitment and training to sort these guys out and make sure they don't get into the wrong situations.

Hey I blamed it on HR!!

[gingerjedi]

Compare to the whinging woman complaining of a slap in the face & a bash to the leg after swearing & taunting the officer is just looking for publicity - either for herself or to discredit the police who she knows are prone to mistakes in this situation.

Are saying that is acceptable? I always thought we paid the police to serve and protect the public?

[Grinder]

Are saying that is acceptable? I always thought we paid the police to serve and protect the public?

Not acceptable, but a predictable consequence of her actions. From what I saw, the woman was not there to peacefully protest but to provoke. No one should be naive enough to think that if you tease a policeman & do not move back when told, all you will get is quietly moved to one side despite resisting.

[expat]

The way he was walking (slowly with hands in pockets), to the eye of a crowd-control policeman may have made him look like he was trying to be cheeky/ difficult. But I bet in the copper's head when he pushed the guy he thought "**** I pushed him too hard".

He wasn't just a beat copper, he was Territorial Support Group, formerly Special Patrol Group (unit's name was changed for PR after they killed a non-violent protestor in the past). So he probably thought "**** he's still moving, I can't have pushed him hard enough".

[gingerjedi]

Not acceptable, but a predictable consequence of her actions. From what I saw, the woman was not there to peacefully protest but to provoke. No one should be naive enough to think that if you tease a policeman & do not move back when told, all you will get is quietly moved to one side despite resisting.

Like she said on the BBC this morning, he could have pushed her back or picked her up but no he pulled out his baton and used it with full force. I know she was there to provoke but this isn't the sort of behaviour I expect from the traditionally professional and passive UK police.

I feel there's a worrying trend where the 'authorities' seem to be more and more belligerent towards the public whether it’s CCTV, DNA data bases, ID cards or policing.

[OwlHoot]

The obvious answer is to reinstate the Riot Act, which Ted Heath's government abolished in the '70s.

(Yes, him again - Seems like most of our problems today can be traced back to him in one way or another!)

That way everyone would know where they stood (or sat if they'd been clobbered by a copper).

All it would take is for a magistrate to bellow out the following through a megaphone:

Our Sovereign Lady the Queen chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the act made in the first year of King George, for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the Queen!

and if more than a dozen rioters were still assembled an hour later, then the cops could be as robust as they wished without having to worry about the consequences.

[Mich the Tester]

Not acceptable, but a predictable consequence of her actions. From what I saw, the woman was not there to peacefully protest but to provoke. No one should be naive enough to think that if you tease a policeman & do not move back when told, all you will get is quietly moved to one side despite resisting.

One of the ugly consequences of all this is that the less desirable elements among protesters might now be encouraged to provoke the police, which doesn't appear to be very difficult.

The woman might have been rude, inconsiderate and even provocative; the way to deal with that is to arrest her in a safe and responsible manner and then decide whether to charge her; it can never be right to belt people around the legs with a baton unless they are using violence against the police, and even then she could probably have been overpowered without resorting to that kind of thuggery.

I know the police have a difficult job, but I'm afraid there have been too many 'incidents' concerning the police in London for the public to continue to trust them. The Stephen Lawrence case, the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, the assault on that guy who died at the protests plus this woman who was hit; all these events have been combined with at best, poor management of information, and at worst downright lies. I wonder what happens when the public cease to tolerate the police; can protesters now justify arming themselves out of self defense against a police force that appears to be out of control?

[Gonzo]

<snip>

I know the police have a difficult job, but I'm afraid there have been too many 'incidents' concerning the police in London for the public to continue to trust them. The Stephen Lawrence case, the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, the assault on that guy who died at the protests plus this woman who was hit; all these events have been combined with at best, poor management of information, and at worst downright lies. I wonder what happens when the public cease to tolerate the police; can protesters now justify arming themselves out of self defense against a police force that appears to be out of control?

I take the view that for a city the size that it is, the police in London do a pretty good job of limiting the number of unacceptable mistakes.

Here is a story about the police in France for a comparison:
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...889349,00.html (SFW)