NL saved.

[DodgyAgent]

It's not objective when you have a conclusion and then look for facts to support it... most people here seem to be simply jumping on the criticism bandwagon.
As if Labour are the only party that makes promises to get people to support them, surely even the Tory supporters can see how easy and meaningless it is for Cameron to find solutions when he is 'backseat driving'?

By the way, the whole "new lie" thing is about as childish as calling Microsoft Micro$oft... professional, educated people who take interest in politics should be able to do better than name calling... any time I read a post with "new lie" it immediately discredits everything they have to say in my eyes.

It is interesting how these people try and save their skins by seeking refuge in comparing themselves with "others". This wont help you as we dont like the Tories either. So maybe instead of moaning that New Lie (and my god they do lie) are being victimised then maybe you can point out what is good about them.

Unfortunately their last bastion of competence has been destroyed (the economy), so I wish you luck.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

We need a new forum "Heavy relief", where only serious no-name-calling discussions occur. Or perhaps even a thread titled heavy relief.

How about a thread or forum purely for name-calling? Oh hang on............

[The Lone Gunman]

I'm sorry if it comes across as a chip - I prefer to think of it as a long memory and a study of politics at what many would regard as anorak level. I just like to challenge the cosy Tories club on here that seems to be composed of revisionist historians and facts checked by the man in the pub. I am not a Labour or Tory supporter in a dyed in the wool way. I think it was time for a change in 1997 and it's time for a change now, but I don't hold out any great hope that a change of government will make everything wonderful. Nor do I think this country would be a paradise paved with gold if only people hadn't had the damn cheek not to vote Tory in 1997 and 2005. Some things might be better, some worse.

It comes across as a chip.
You trot out your line at every opportunity. Everyone who has argued with you has given valid reasons for their political leanings and not a few have agreed that the Tories were not perfect. Similarly they have given reasons why some of the Tories less pleasant legislation was necessary at the time.

[edit]Sorry missed your last post whilst writing this.

[ratewhore]

... any time I read a post with "new lie" it immediately discredits everything they have to say in my eyes.

And who the f**k are you?

I think you'll find most people here believe in govt where it's needed and personal responsibility. Not the shithole NL have left us with.

[TimberWolf]

Aren't there rich and powerful people that pull the strings of both parties in exchange for a riches after politics anyway?

[DodgyAgent]

And who the f**k are you?

I think you'll find most people here believe in govt where it's needed and personal responsibility. Not the shithole NL have left us with.

New Labour have had the perfect opportunity to take this country and make it better. Better by getting rid of poverty through spending money on education, removing the ghetto housing estates. There has not been any shortage of jobs for entry level upwards workers. They have had every opprtunity. The Tories had to sort out the mess of socialism and so doing made themselves an unpopular long term option.

No instead they screwed as much money as they could out of everyone in order to feather their own power base of public services. Because the public sector is made up of self serving socialists no effort has been made to reform them, leaving the poor trapped in a spiral of poverty, poor health, poor education and welfare.

And dont mention the war.

[d000hg]

And who the f**k are you?

Someone who'd rather hear reasoned arguments not let down by childish name calling. Seriously, the whole NL thing was like 10 years ago anyway... is that really how long this 'witticism' has been going on? In the last decade, hasn't anyone been able to come up with something more current and actually witty... even a tabloid newspaper is scraping the barrel with headlines like "Liebour".

[The Lone Gunman]

Someone who'd rather hear reasoned arguments not let down by childish name calling. Seriously, the whole NL thing was like 10 years ago anyway... is that really how long this 'witticism' has been going on? In the last decade, hasn't anyone been able to come up with something more current and actually witty... even a tabloid newspaper is scraping the barrel with headlines like "Liebour".

It is not name calling any more. We all have handles on here, we give handles to others. NL have supplied us with lots of opportunities and so far they live up to them. Some handles were witty at the time and have stuck. Some of the handles we have given are heart felt and use with some venom. Some of us just can not bring ourselves to use the real names, or the propaganda title invented to make them sound better.
To use Not the Nine O'Clocok News.
From now on The Labour Party will be known as New Labour. Also Radiation will hence forth be known as magic moonbeams.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

New Labour have had the perfect opportunity to take this country and make it better. Better by getting rid of poverty through spending money on education, removing the ghetto housing estates. There has not been any shortage of jobs for entry level upwards workers. They have had every opprtunity. The Tories had to sort out the mess of socialism and so doing made themselves an unpopular long term option.

No instead they screwed as much money as they could out of everyone in order to feather their own power base of public services. Because the public sector is made up of self serving socialists no effort has been made to reform them, leaving the poor trapped in a spiral of poverty, poor health, poor education and welfare.

And dont mention the war.

Dodgy, whilst I totally agree about the sad waste of an opportunity of this government, I don't think the Tories lost in 1997 because they were still "sorting out socialism".

They lost because they had had plenty of time to set things right, had claimed to be the party of low taxes and yet, in 1992-94 had imposed a load of new taxes. The blame for these cannot be laid at a previous Labour Government so far in, any more than this one has a right to blame the Tories for anything now.

Major also appeared in disarray because of the in-fighting over Europe, and hospitals and schools were in a mess (I know, I know, they still are). I think people had the right to expect 18 years was long enough to get to grips with these issues and since the Tories hadn't, someone else could have a go.

Major had also had ill-judged pronouncements like back-to-basics which sounded fine, but unfortunately, Neil Hamilton, Lord Archole and Jonathan Aitken hadn't read the script - as it turned out we found out later that Major hadn't either.

The error was in falling for Blair when he promised to clean it all up. Now we're all a little older, wiser and even more cynical about politicians.

[edit] I also don't think that any government has made the significant progress needed in the public sector (although I accept that the Tories sell-off of public monopolies moved some of the problems to the private sector to a degree)

[BrilloPad]

Dodgy, whilst I totally agree about the sad waste of an opportunity of this government, I don't think the Tories lost in 1997 because they were still "sorting out socialism".

They lost because they had had plenty of time to set things right, had claimed to be the party of low taxes and yet, in 1992-94 had imposed a load of new taxes. The blame for these cannot be laid at a previous Labour Government so far in, any more than this one has a right to blame the Tories for anything now.

Major also appeared is disarray because of the in-fighting over Europe, and hospitals and schools were in a mess (I know, I know, they still are). I think people had right to expect 18 years was long enough to get to grips with these issues and since the Tories hadn't, someone else could have a go.

Major had also had ill-judged pronouncements like back-to-basics which sounded fine, but unfortunately, Neil Hamilton, Lord Archole and Jonathan Aitken hadn't read the script - as it turned out we found out later that Major hadn't either.

The error was in falling for Blair when he promised to clean it all up. Now we're all a little older, wiser and even more cynical about politicians.

Tories lost because of sleeze. If they were going to thrown out because of economics it would have been 1992....