NL saved.

[The Lone Gunman]

Yes I've got loads - I just play this one every time we get that "Labour are rubbish and eat babies and the Tories are absolutely super chaps who have never, ever done an thing wrong" record.

But nobody in this thread said anything about the Tories. Any statement about NL being rubbish has been supported.

You have probably the biggest chip I have ever come across.

[d000hg]

It's not objective when you have a conclusion and then look for facts to support it... most people here seem to be simply jumping on the criticism bandwagon.
As if Labour are the only party that makes promises to get people to support them, surely even the Tory supporters can see how easy and meaningless it is for Cameron to find solutions when he is 'backseat driving'?

By the way, the whole "new lie" thing is about as childish as calling Microsoft Micro$oft... professional, educated people who take interest in politics should be able to do better than name calling... any time I read a post with "new lie" it immediately discredits everything they have to say in my eyes.

[d000hg]

But nobody in this thread said anything about the Tories.

Exactly. Everyone here just likes to jump on Labour with the same old lines and the Tories never get discussed...

[Peoplesoft bloke]

He also used PPI deals to take most of the long term debt off the books. I.e. having the private sector build hugely expensive (overpriced) hospitals that the government are tied into renting for at least 20 years. This type of long term debt doesn't appear on the books but sucks tax payers money for a very long time and at ridiculous costs.

Indeed - it's a sure sign of how good or bad policy isn't unique to one party that when PFI was introduced by John Major in 1992, Patricia Hewitt (remember her?) attacked it and called it "privatisation by the back door" - but she and Gordo managed to bury their distaste for it and learn to love it once in government - and people wonder why some of us think it doesn't make much difference who is in power!

[The Lone Gunman]

It's not objective when you have a conclusion and then look for facts to support it... most people here seem to be simply jumping on the criticism bandwagon.
As if Labour are the only party that makes promises to get people to support them, surely even the Tory supporters can see how easy and meaningless it is for Cameron to find solutions when he is 'backseat driving'?

By the way, the whole "new lie" thing is about as childish as calling Microsoft Micro$oft... professional, educated people who take interest in politics should be able to do better than name calling... any time I read a post with "new lie" it immediately discredits everything they have to say in my eyes.

You have not been here very long have you?

We have been discussing this subject for years. Our conclusions are based on observations over those years. New evidence comes to light every day that supports our conclusions.
We may be wrong, but we do not think so.
Rehashing the arguments that support our conclusions would take forever.

This is a contractors forum, name calling goes with the territory. Sometimes we are not so serious. If you don't like it you will find more serious discussion (possibly) on other forums.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

But nobody in this thread said anything about the Tories. Any statement about NL being rubbish has been supported.

You have probably the biggest chip I have ever come across.

I'm sorry if it comes across as a chip - I prefer to think of it as a long memory and a study of politics at what many would regard as anorak level. I just like to challenge the cosy Tories club on here that seems to be composed of revisionist historians and facts checked by the man in the pub. I am not a Labour or Tory supporter in a dyed in the wool way. I think it was time for a change in 1997 and it's time for a change now, but I don't hold out any great hope that a change of government will make everything wonderful. Nor do I think this country would be a paradise paved with gold if only people hadn't had the damn cheek not to vote Tory in 1997 and 2005. Some things might be better, some worse.

[TimberWolf]

If you don't like it you will find more serious discussion (possibly) on other forums.

We need a new forum "Heavy relief", where only serious no-name-calling discussions occur. Or perhaps even a thread titled heavy relief.

[DodgyAgent]

Dodgy - I think you have a great deal to contribute, but you let yourself when you sneeringly call me a small minded leftie, and it's ironic to accuse me of cliche when I'm actually arguing against a cliches that are often trotted out about the Thatcher years.

I have said before and I will say again that Thatcher deserves credit for some things and contempt for others, actually just like El Gordo. I've grown out of the football team approach to politics where everything one party does is evil and anything another does is brave and noble.

You are right. I could have made the point without the "sneering".. apologies

[ratewhore]

Very well said !!! Hear Hear !!!

Steady on!! He is a pimp you know...

[Peoplesoft bloke]

You are right. I could have made the point without the "sneering".. apologies

No problems - and I'll try and shut up about Thatcher now - TLG's right, it's getting a bit much.