Ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere?

[NotAllThere]

... the ability of people to hold contradictory systems of belief does not surprise me at all and says absoulutely nothing about the vailidity or otherwise of those beliefs.

Nor does it say anything about the intelligence or otherwise of those that hold those beliefs.

[TimberWolf]

So Dawkins atheism is a product of his environment, and should therefore not be taken seriously?

In fact, his work on evolutionary biology and genetics is also a product of his environment.

What is your point? I don't get it.

I'm saying Christianity must be a product of the environment, there is no escaping it, just as Atheism is a product of the environment (if you include not believing something is a product).

Dawkins is just a man, not a belief system, so can be taken anyway you wish. I regard him as a bit of a nutter.

[NotAllThere]

a BigMac hamburger fullfills a need, that does not make it good for me.

No, a BigMac fulfills a perverted desire. That's why I asked for clarification on what was meant by "needs".

[sasguru]

No, a BigMac fulfills a perverted desire. That's why I asked for clarification on what was meant by "needs".

I would say that when people have little or no control of their lives for whatever reason, they look to supernatural forces for comfort. That is the historical basis of religion.
There is plenty of evidence that belief in religion is inversely correlated with education and therefore presumably wealth and ability to control your life.
Who wouldn't want a benevolent God looking after them? I know I would, but I also know I have no evidence for that at all and prefer not to fool myself.

[ThomasSoerensen]

No, a BigMac fulfills a perverted desire. That's why I asked for clarification on what was meant by "needs".

one mans perverted desire is another mans need. (Think of Max Mosley )

A child has a need to believe many things told to him from authorities without questioning it. It is often critical for the childs survival. (Think along the lines of telling the kid to not cross the road without the parent being there holding the childs hand)

Rreligion exploits this hack in the brain to make people believe things they are told as children without questioning it.

Is that a real need for religion by the child. I don't think so.

[sasguru]

one mans perverted desire is another mans need. (Think of Max Mosley )

A child has a need to believe many things told to him from authorities without questioning it. It is often critical for the childs survival. (Think along the lines of telling the kid to not cross the road without the parent being there holding the childs hand)

Rreligion exploits this hack in the brain to make people believe things they are told as children without questioning it.

Is that a real need for religion by the child. I don't think so.

Further to that point - a lot of the Old Testament is actually sensible rules for a group of people (the Jews) to behave when under severe stress and dislocation. Some of those rules are relevant for our times, some are not.

[ThomasSoerensen]

where did the believers go?

off to pray i guess.

[Ruprect]

People have killed in the name of football, or even atheism. It doesn't make football a bad thing, nor atheism. These arguments are really rather peurile.

And research has shown that the people who persue activities which benefit society around them are more likely to be religious than not.

Tell that to the 3000 odd victims of sept 11 to name but 1 incident. Religiously motivated killing is widespread and wrong, not peurile. Comparing it to football violence is demonstrating how feeble your argument really is.

The old "research has shown" line is boll0x too. How could you possibly quantify something like that?

[TykeMerc]

I would say that when people have little or no control of their lives for whatever reason, they look to supernatural forces for comfort. That is the historical basis of religion.
There is plenty of evidence that belief in religion is inversely correlated with education and therefore presumably wealth and ability to control your life.
Who wouldn't want a benevolent God looking after them? I know I would, but I also know I have no evidence for that at all and prefer not to fool myself.

Nicely put.

It's the reason why religions are so effective at controlling populations and making them perform unspeakable atrocities ranging from terrorism through holy wars to genocide.

[NotAllThere]

Nicely put.

It's the reason why religions are so effective at controlling populations and making them perform unspeakable atrocities ranging from terrorism through holy wars to genocide.

Stalinism, Maoism.