Ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere?

[Diver]

I thought that the majority of the councillors were muslim anyway.

linky

There must be some greedy non-muslim councillors if they are getting through all the food before sundown.

Islamabad Council?

[NotAllThere]

Catholics are Christians.

<Paisley mode on>No they're not, they're servants of the Whore of Babylon in Rome<Paisley mode off>

I love these discussions about religion - you can always tell the folks who've read Dawkins' polemics.

I find Dawkins to be great when he's talking about stuff he knows about - i.e. biology, genetics and evolution - but embarrassing when he whitters on about religion and philosophy.

What he says Christians believe isn't actually what they believe; it's barely even a caricature of what they believe. He sets up a straw man and then knocks him down. Hardly intellectual honesty. For example, few Christians believe that the time and date of the creation of the universe was the night preceding October 23, 4004 BC. Many believe in evolution!

[contractor79]

OK. They can believe that the world was created in 6 days, 6000 years ago, by a big bearded fairy in the sky. Is that better?

not really, but how is that dangerous?

Regarding across the pond, I was referring to George W Gump, who believes that god talks to him directly. He has his finger on the button, and that is something to be concerned about.

no idea what you mean, cite yoru evidence that Bush said God told him to go to war, don't repeat dawkinian propaganda

[NotAllThere]

OK. They can believe that the world was created in 6 days, 6000 years ago...

The evolutionary biologist Stephen Gould said

I shall be defending Ussher's chronology as an honourable effort for its time and arguing that our usual ridicule only records a lamentable small-mindedness based on mistaken use of present criteria to judge a distant and different past

Ussher represented the best of scholarship in his time. He was part of a substantial research tradition, a large community of intellectuals working toward a common goal under an accepted methodology…

So that's you told!

( btw, according to Pratchett and Gaiman, Ussher was off by 15 minutes ).

[contractor79]

An educated and enlightened society has no need for superstitious mythical nonesense irrespective of what the religion is called.
Religions have always represented the single most effective form of political and cultural control available especially in populations where the majority are poorly educated, fear of being branded a heretic (social isolation, torture and horrible death) or being damned for all eternity are hugely effective scare tactics.
The power of religion as a tool of political control has been understood for thousands of years it's clearly visible in Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Myan, Aztec, Persian, Chinese, Middle East (including Eastern Med) African, Indian and any other ancient civilisation you care to name that maintained a written or artistic record.
It's also clearly visible throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance up to the present day through the more "modern" religions i.e. Christianisty and Islam and those that survived from more ancient times like Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism.

When it comes to the educational credentials of most religions those are watered down somewhat by the requirement for conversion to and worship of the "educating" religion.

More people have killed and been killed in the name of religion than any other causes put together (I include rabid atheism as a religion here), over the centuries religions have perpetrated the vast majority of the atrocities committed on the planet.

My personal opinion is religions of all types have absolutely no place in the modern world, morals and ethics aren't don't belong to religions, they belong to rational human thought.

how many atheist schools have been opened? where are all the atheist charities?

[DimPrawn]

For example, few Christians believe that the time and date of the creation of the universe was the night preceding October 23, 4004 BC.

Why did God create the universe on a Tuesday? Was it a bank holiday that week?

[The Lone Gunman]

Hold on a mo:
If Christians dont believe in the bearded bloke in the sky then what do they believe in?

Why is it dangerous? Because having an imaginary friend is delusional which is often very dangerous. Particularly when people go to war over who has the best imaginary friend (ref the late great Bill Hicks).

[ThomasSoerensen]

Hold on a mo:
If Christians dont believe in the bearded bloke in the sky then what do they believe in?

Why is it dangerous? Because having an imaginary friend is delusional which is often very dangerous. Particularly when people go to war over who has the best imaginary friend (ref the late great Bill Hicks).

I think most "Christians" do not believe in what is written in the big book.
They pick and choose (or their parents did that for them) what is convenient to believe.

contractor79, please tell me which part(s) of the bible you believe in and which you don't and why?

[sasguru]

<Paisley mode on>No they're not, they're servants of the Whore of Babylon in Rome<Paisley mode off>

I love these discussions about religion - you can always tell the folks who've read Dawkins' polemics.

I find Dawkins to be great when he's talking about stuff he knows about - i.e. biology, genetics and evolution - but embarrassing when he whitters on about religion and philosophy.

What he says Christians believe isn't actually what they believe; it's barely even a caricature of what they believe. He sets up a straw man and then knocks him down. Hardly intellectual honesty. For example, few Christians believe that the time and date of the creation of the universe was the night preceding October 23, 4004 BC. Many believe in evolution!

I've been an atheist since I was about 12. I tried to read Dawkins book but gave up as I found he wasn't really saying anything new.
What do Christians believe, then, that wasn't written by a few beardy old blokes a few thousand years ago? Just like the Muslims believe their own beardy old blokes.
Why should the Bible take precedence over the Koran? Why are our (Jewish) beardy old blokes likely to be more truthful that theirs or Hindu beardy old blokes?
Dawkins is right and it's all a heap of nonsense.

[The Lone Gunman]

I think most "Christians" do not believe in what is written in the big book.
They pick and choose (or their parents did that for them) what is convenient to believe.

contractor79, please tell me which part(s) of the bible you believe in and which you don't and why?

That is where I was going too.

One issue we have though is that there are those who do believe it word for word. Some of these hold sway in the US. It seems that a president can not get elected without the support of the religious right hence McCain back tracking on his view of the religious right.