Thatcher's legacy

[BlasterBates]

The idea of relying solely on financial and services industries was Thatcher's. Labour continued it.
But once you've got rid of manufacturing, it's impossible to get it back.
Thatcher should have used her skills to turn around the ailing industries BEFORE privatising them, like the French managed to do.

where did Eastern Europe get their manufacturing base back.

Romania has just set up a load of factories and all they used to do was grow turnips.

It is completely ridiculous to suggest that there isn't a sufficient manucfacturing base on which to build on, not discounting inward investment.

[malvolio]

The idea of relying solely on financial and services industries was Thatcher's. Labour continued it.
But once you've got rid of manufacturing, it's impossible to get it back.
Thatcher should have used her skills to turn around the ailing industries BEFORE privatising them, like the French managed to do.

With what? UK industry was producing shoddy goods that nobody wanted using a workforce that was liable to down tools on any pretext. We didn't have the income nor the resources to support them, unlike the French (who, you may recall, did not bankrupt themselves winning the war; they let others do that). Heavy Industry in the UK was doomed anyway, what Thatcher did was ensure it didn't take the country with it.

[Churchill]

The idea of relying solely on financial and services industries was Thatcher's. Labour continued it.
But once you've got rid of manufacturing, it's impossible to get it back.
Thatcher should have used her skills to turn around the ailing industries BEFORE privatising them, like the French managed to do.

and you should stop looking for some other f**ker to blame.

Pull your finger out and make the best of what you can.

[sasguru]

With what? UK industry was producing shoddy goods that nobody wanted using a workforce that was liable to down tools on any pretext. We didn't have the income nor the resources to support them, unlike the French (who, you may recall, did not bankrupt themselves winning the war; they let others do that). Heavy Industry in the UK was doomed anyway, what Thatcher did was ensure it didn't take the country with it.

Nonsense. Britain got the largest proportion of post-war Marshall Plan aid, and was not as thoroughly destroyed as Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Although I agree you with you that a combination of divisive class politics, a superiority complex and just plain complacence meant that British industry was in dire straights by the 70s. I still think more could have been done to save it.

[BlasterBates]

The other to bear in mind in countries, where they preserved manufacturing industries, they haven't stopped once major manufacturers, from relocating a substantial proportion of their activities overseas. Companies like Siemens and BMW have been hollowed out. Germany is a major exporter but a lot of what they manufacture is actually done in subsiduaries in eastern Europe. Also automation has put paid to a lot of jobs in Germany. That's the reason Germany has very high unemployment, even as the no 1 exporter.

[sasguru]

The other to bear in mind in countries, where they preserved manufacturing industries, they haven't stopped once major manufacturers, from relocating a substantial proportion of their activities overseas. Companies like Siemens and BMW have been hollowed out. Germany is a major exporter but a lot of what they manufacture is actually done in subsiduaries in eastern Europe. Also automation has put paid to a lot of jobs in Germany. That's the reason Germany has very high unemployment, even as the no 1 exporter.

And you think we don't have? Count the number on silly educashun courses and incapacity benefit and its a very large no indeed. And about to get much worse

[BlasterBates]

Nonsense. Britain got the largest proportion of post-war Marshall Plan aid, and was not as thoroughly destroyed as Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Although I agree you with you that a combination of divisive class politics, a superiority complex and just plain complacence meant that British industry was in dire straights by the 70s. I still think more could have been done to save it.

The problem was British industry didn't modernise in the 60's and 70's. I worked in British engineering companies in the 80's and they were just manufacturing complete rubbish. That's the reason it disappeared, Very difficult to change working practices that have been around since the indutrial revolution. The Japanese inward investment changed Britain from being a net importer of cars to a net exporter.

[Lockhouse]

With what? UK industry was producing shoddy goods that nobody wanted using a workforce that was liable to down tools on any pretext. We didn't have the income nor the resources to support them, unlike the French (who, you may recall, did not bankrupt themselves winning the war; they let others do that). Heavy Industry in the UK was doomed anyway, what Thatcher did was ensure it didn't take the country with it.

I was watching a DVD this week made in 1973 about two guys working in a factory in England. It brought it all back to me why British industry was tulip. I remember as a kid; shop stewards, the three day week, strikes and more strikes, power cuts every week, rubbish piled up in the streets. It had to go.

Hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to say now that more effort had to be made to modernise industry but at the time the last thing the unions wanted was modernisation. They were more interested fomenting political unrest than in helping their own members - constructive talk was impossible - and both sides have to carry some blame for that. Nothing's changed.

[BlasterBates]

And you think we don't have? Count the number on silly educashun courses and incapacity benefit and its a very large no indeed. And about to get much worse

What makes you think Germany doesn't have its schemes. The Arbeitsagentur, have published that in addition to the 3.5 million umemployed there are a further 1.5 million out of work in schemes, training etc. This 1.5 million is a statistic from the government.

[sasguru]

What makes you think Germany doesn't have its schemes. The Arbeitsagentur, have published that in addition to the 3.5 million umemployed there are a further 1.5 million out of work in schemes, training etc. This 1.5 million is a statistic from the government.

And I wonder what our unemployment rate would be if we had absorbed a large communist country in 1990?