Reply to: Thatcher's legacy

[expat]

... unlike the French (who, you may recall, did not bankrupt themselves winning the war; they let others do that)...

We didn't bankrupt purselves winning the war, we did that afterwards, pretending still to have an empire.

[TimberWolf]

Best quote:

with the national debt more than doubling since 1992

Is that doubling in real terms? E.g. If inflation were 5% a year over 16 year period, that debt would have more than doubled in unreal terms.

[Incognito]

Balls. Here's the reason why the countries in a right mess.

Best quote:




New Labour, Old Labour, both the same, they'll always spunk someone elses money up against the wall.

country is

[Incognito]

Well perhaps I am wrong to think what I think.
Doesn't matter - the end result is that our economy is over-reliant on a now weak financial sector and there not much else apart from maybe aerospace, pharma and weapons to take up the slack.

Balls. Here's the reason why the countries in a right mess.

Best quote:

with the national debt more than doubling since 1992

New Labour, Old Labour, both the same, they'll always spunk someone elses money up against the wall.

[sasguru]

That is Bliar's legacy, not Thatcher's.

Bliar believed that Britain could be solely funded by the City and did not need any manufacturing or service economy outside finance.

The guy was a ******* lunatic (and war criminal).

I'm not backing Labour either. They are and were a bunch of nitwits.
Maggie was a much stronger person than Tone and like her or hate her she had conviction.
By his own admission, Tone was guided by voices from God. Nuff said.

[DimPrawn]

Well perhaps I am wrong to think what I think.
Doesn't matter - the end result is that our economy is over-reliant on a now weak financial sector and there not much else apart from maybe aerospace, pharma and weapons to take up the slack.

That is Bliar's legacy, not Thatcher's.

Bliar believed that Britain could be solely funded by the City and did not need any manufacturing or service economy outside finance.

The guy was a ******* lunatic (and war criminal).

[sasguru]

Well perhaps I am wrong to think what I think.
Doesn't matter - the end result is that our economy is over-reliant on a now weak financial sector and there not much else apart from maybe aerospace, pharma and weapons to take up the slack.

[BlasterBates]

And I wonder what our unemployment rate would be if we had absorbed a large communist country in 1990?

Latvia has an unemployment rate of 4.9% and the East German states it is more like 15-20%. It was 0% percent when the German government took over.

What does that tell you?

Economic policy failure perhaps?

[DimPrawn]

The idea of relying solely on financial and services industries was Thatcher's. Labour continued it.
But once you've got rid of manufacturing, it's impossible to get it back.
Thatcher should have used her skills to turn around the ailing industries BEFORE privatising them, like the French managed to do.

You talk some crap.

Many car manufactuers still operating in the UK (e.g. Honda, Toyota, Nissan) came to the UK and setup manufacturing here because of the deals offered by Maggie. There were also others such as IBM in Scotland, Motorola. Infact 100's of household names setup in the UK during her "reign".

Maggie was a great believer in manufacturing, but recognised that the Unions made it impossible in the UK to operate efficiently.

[sasguru]

What makes you think Germany doesn't have its schemes. The Arbeitsagentur, have published that in addition to the 3.5 million umemployed there are a further 1.5 million out of work in schemes, training etc. This 1.5 million is a statistic from the government.

And I wonder what our unemployment rate would be if we had absorbed a large communist country in 1990?

[BlasterBates]

And you think we don't have? Count the number on silly educashun courses and incapacity benefit and its a very large no indeed. And about to get much worse

What makes you think Germany doesn't have its schemes. The Arbeitsagentur, have published that in addition to the 3.5 million umemployed there are a further 1.5 million out of work in schemes, training etc. This 1.5 million is a statistic from the government.

[Lockhouse]

With what? UK industry was producing shoddy goods that nobody wanted using a workforce that was liable to down tools on any pretext. We didn't have the income nor the resources to support them, unlike the French (who, you may recall, did not bankrupt themselves winning the war; they let others do that). Heavy Industry in the UK was doomed anyway, what Thatcher did was ensure it didn't take the country with it.

I was watching a DVD this week made in 1973 about two guys working in a factory in England. It brought it all back to me why British industry was tulip. I remember as a kid; shop stewards, the three day week, strikes and more strikes, power cuts every week, rubbish piled up in the streets. It had to go.

Hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to say now that more effort had to be made to modernise industry but at the time the last thing the unions wanted was modernisation. They were more interested fomenting political unrest than in helping their own members - constructive talk was impossible - and both sides have to carry some blame for that. Nothing's changed.

[BlasterBates]

Nonsense. Britain got the largest proportion of post-war Marshall Plan aid, and was not as thoroughly destroyed as Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Although I agree you with you that a combination of divisive class politics, a superiority complex and just plain complacence meant that British industry was in dire straights by the 70s. I still think more could have been done to save it.

The problem was British industry didn't modernise in the 60's and 70's. I worked in British engineering companies in the 80's and they were just manufacturing complete rubbish. That's the reason it disappeared, Very difficult to change working practices that have been around since the indutrial revolution. The Japanese inward investment changed Britain from being a net importer of cars to a net exporter.

[sasguru]

The other to bear in mind in countries, where they preserved manufacturing industries, they haven't stopped once major manufacturers, from relocating a substantial proportion of their activities overseas. Companies like Siemens and BMW have been hollowed out. Germany is a major exporter but a lot of what they manufacture is actually done in subsiduaries in eastern Europe. Also automation has put paid to a lot of jobs in Germany. That's the reason Germany has very high unemployment, even as the no 1 exporter.

And you think we don't have? Count the number on silly educashun courses and incapacity benefit and its a very large no indeed. And about to get much worse

[BlasterBates]

The other to bear in mind in countries, where they preserved manufacturing industries, they haven't stopped once major manufacturers, from relocating a substantial proportion of their activities overseas. Companies like Siemens and BMW have been hollowed out. Germany is a major exporter but a lot of what they manufacture is actually done in subsiduaries in eastern Europe. Also automation has put paid to a lot of jobs in Germany. That's the reason Germany has very high unemployment, even as the no 1 exporter.