News article on Poverty

[DieScum]

Probably not at all given the saving of taking 2/3 of the 5 million off benefits?

Yeah maybe.

I suppose at least the start up costs would be high. To get guys like that in to work you'd probably have to assign someone to him, find him a job, follow up to help him make sure he doesn't lose the job.

Either that or just pull benefits... but you would soon get tabloid stories of starving kids... and there would be real poverty for the children involved so I don't think we cand do that.

[Cyberman]

I have no idea how to 'fix' this, because once you raise expectations you will get civil unrest of you then try to take it away. One of my friends has a theory, which is way too radical to ever be implemented. Everybody, man woman and child, in the country, gets a benefit of a fixed amount per week, say £60 - since it's not means tested, you lose all the costly state apparatus for dispensing it. This replaces all the income supports and dole money, and all tax breaks. Those who want to skive can do so. Those who want to work a little to supplement it, can do so. Those who want to earn a lot can work hard, and still get the benefit of the safety net.

It can be done and the Germans did it in 2005 with 'HARTZ IV' !! Everybody had to reapply for benefits which were means-tested and also reduced. Their were initial protests but the German government knew that their 'nanny' benefits system was expensive and unsustainable. Their new system has forced people into work and saved the state billions of Euros.

We need to do it here in the UK ASAP. Only the Tories would have to do it though as New Lie would be hurting most of their voters.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4142441.stm

[BrilloPad]

Yeah maybe.

I suppose at least the start up costs would be high. To get guys like that in to work you'd probably have to assign someone to him, find him a job, follow up to help him make sure he doesn't lose the job.

Either that or just pull benefits... but you would soon get tabloid stories of starving kids... and there would be real poverty for the children involved so I don't think we cand do that.

Could we pull the benefits of the childless? Or will that encourage them to breed?

[DieScum]

I don't think you can. It is depressing short of having a society where we let kids grow up in real poverty then I think it is just always going to be the case.

In fairness labour did try to handle exactly this scenario with working tax credits. They are specifically designed to make working more financially beneficial than being on benefits... but apparently only 20% of those eligible actually filled in the forms to claim them. What can you do?

[Moscow Mule]

What can you do?

Simplify the system so even poorly educated people can understand it.

Working tax credits are an administrative nightmare - apparently the scale of fraud is huge also. A fella in Newcastle had hijacked my NI number and was claiming WTC - got a few interesting letters from HMRC....

[BrilloPad]

In fairness labour did try to handle exactly this scenario with working tax credits. They are specifically designed to make working more financially beneficial than being on benefits... but apparently only 20% of those eligible actually filled in the forms to claim them. What can you do?

The process for claiming credits was overly complex. Then they handed over too much money - and then demanded it back.

Better way is to simplify the system - as Maggie did.

[sasguru]

I don't think you can. It is depressing short of having a society where we let kids grow up in real poverty then I think it is just always going to be the case.

In fairness labour did try to handle exactly this scenario with working tax credits. They are specifically designed to make working more financially beneficial than being on benefits... but apparently only 20% of those eligible actually filled in the forms to claim them. What can you do?

Typical Labour scheme - create a whole new level of unsustainable bureacracy with thousands of peope to administer it. Why not just raise the lower limit of threshold tax?

[Bagpuss]

We need to do it here in the UK ASAP. Only the Tories would have to do it though as New Lie would be hurting most of their voters.

It amazes me you think people without the social responsibility to work have the motivation to actually go out and vote. These people have been on benefits for generations, they didn't vote for Tory when they were claiming under them and they don't vote Labour now. Labour's core support/swinging support are working people on minimum wage in places like Crewe, and middle class socialists. Many of the former have now switched to Tory which used to have strong working class support, especially under Thatcher.

[Moscow Mule]

Why not just raise the lower limit of threshold tax?

I think I need to sit down - Sas agrees with me...

[Platypus]

In fairness labour did try to handle exactly this scenario with working tax credits. They are specifically designed to make working more financially beneficial than being on benefits... but apparently only 20% of those eligible actually filled in the forms to claim them. What can you do?

Oh come on - it's well known that schemes like this are designed to appear great but have such a low take-up rate that the cost is minimal. This allows the government to claim it's addressed the problem at a fraction of the cost.

I didn't realise anyone fell for that scam - until I read your post.