Indian/Pakistani MCSEs

[sidknows]

does it really matter whats on the cv as everyone lies about whats on the cv .. allegedly
if they can do the job , fine .. otherwise get rid

[expat]

does it really matter whats on the cv as everyone lies about whats on the cv .. allegedly
if they can do the job , fine .. otherwise get rid

I know that you have no proof of this so I might be BSing, but I have never lied about anything on my CV. Where is your pride, that you would rather be a con man than a contractor?

[sunnysan]

Tech CVS

With tech its a bit easier. You advertise for a position, look at CV's. Candidate walks in, pop a tech test in front of him and there is your answer.

In the old days a bit of B$ was OK, now I am really up front about what I know and what I dont, at the end of the day decent agents and prospective employees respect that.

[ctdctd]

I know that you have no proof of this so I might be BSing, but I have never lied about anything on my CV. Where is your pride, that you would rather be a con man than a contractor?

WHS

[BrilloPad]

does it really matter whats on the cv as everyone lies about whats on the cv .. allegedly
if they can do the job , fine .. otherwise get rid

speak for yourself.

[Ardesco]

Indian Yes, Pakistani No.
Pakistani education system is substandard and full of corruption. nearly everyone forges or exaggerates their credentials.
I interviewed a Candidate from Pakistan once who claimed to have experience in Oracle. I put together a test of basic Oracle and SQL...he couldn't answer a single question.

The Indian educational system is of a higher standard. I heard once about some people who could not get into the Indian Technology Institute (ITI?), and ended up at some high-class American school. (Brown or Carnegie-Mellon..can't recall)

Pakistani's also tend to come here to work in their uncle's fruit stall. And then hang around for 20 years - illegally.

I would disagree. I have worked with and dealt with a lot of very competent Indian developers, but along the way I have worked and dealt with an equal amount of incompetent ones.

The sad fact is that enough money will buy you anything in India, bribery is part of the way of life. If you have enough money and want an MCSE you can get one. If you have some spare money and know the right person, you can get one and so on and so forth.

I'm not saying that it is any better in Pakistan, as I'm sure it is not (they seem to have a healthy slice of violence to go along with the corruption).

From your post I take it you are of Indian descent.

[Francko]

Indian Yes, Pakistani No.
Pakistani education system is substandard and full of corruption. nearly everyone forges or exaggerates their credentials.
I interviewed a Candidate from Pakistan once who claimed to have experience in Oracle. I put together a test of basic Oracle and SQL...he couldn't answer a single question.

The Indian educational system is of a higher standard. I heard once about some people who could not get into the Indian Technology Institute (ITI?), and ended up at some high-class American school. (Brown or Carnegie-Mellon..can't recall)

Pakistani's also tend to come here to work in their uncle's fruit stall. And then hang around for 20 years - illegally.

I am sure that there must be very good schools in India. Point is how many chances are that these brilliant people will stay in India and work for peanuts for indian managers(and if you had something to do with indian managers you probably understand what I mean). Chances are that these people will work on a fast-track visa at Harvard or in such important institution. The typical John Hindu that you get in these outsourcing deals is the low-skilled person who cannot find a job abroad or who is not skilled enough for manager positions (the situation there is similar to what it was 20-30 years ago in England, if you wanted a decent salary you have to be a manager). Therefore you have almost the certainty that in your outsorcing business you get a very bad deal for your money.

[dude69]

Definitely a racist me, I hate all HORRIBLE FOREIGN people. However, all the Indians I have actually worked with have been horribly bright and competent.

Perhaps you could send them here.

Ours are sent to work on SQL Server systems with no understanding of SQL Server syntax (e.g., 'inner join' rather than where a.Column = b.Column), don't understand basic C# syntax, display near-zero understanding of the business, demonstrate zero initiative, speak English very poorly, fail to follow coding standards and end up having their work re-done by the non-Indian staff.

YMMV.

[sasguru]

I am sure that there must be very good schools in India. Point is how many chances are that these brilliant people will stay in India and work for peanuts for indian managers(and if you had something to do with indian managers you probably understand what I mean). Chances are that these people will work on a fast-track visa at Harvard or in such important institution. The typical John Hindu that you get in these outsourcing deals is the low-skilled person who cannot find a job abroad or who is not skilled enough for manager positions (the situation there is similar to what it was 20-30 years ago in England, if you wanted a decent salary you have to be a manager). Therefore you have almost the certainty that in your outsorcing business you get a very bad deal for your money.

Complete and utter bollocks as usual.
Have you ever visited one of the large IT company's campuses in India? They put anything here to shame in terms of facilities, training and quality of workers.
The problems that arise with off-shoring (as opposed to outsourcing) in my experience are these, in order:

1. Poor project management - mainly bad specification of deliverables
2. Inability to overcome cultural differences

If you have a good project manager dedicated to managing the process, it can very successful. Coding is the easy part as usual. Any reasonably intelligent person can do it.

[Moscow Mule]

Complete and utter bollocks as usual.
Have you ever visited one of the large IT company's campuses in India? They put anything here to shame in terms of facilities, training and quality of workers.
The problems that arise with off-shoring (as opposed to outsourcing) in my experience are these, in order:

1. Poor project management - mainly bad specification of deliverables
2. Inability to overcome cultural differences

If you have a good project manager dedicated to managing the process, it can very successful. Coding is the easy part as usual. Any reasonably intelligent person can do it.

Is this mainly that Indians will never ask if they don't understand something, and that they always say they can/will do something when they can't/won't?