BBC News

[snaw]

Yep, though they have been successful in discouraged theft of gramophones and wireless sets.

Not to mention leg warmers, perms and really really sh!t music.

[TimberWolf]

Not to mention leg warmers, perms and really really sh!t music.

sh!t hot

[chicane]

The morgues continue to fill up:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/7421608.stm

[DodgyAgent]

Yes. Murders didn't happen under a tory government :-/ it's not really their fault you see, it's NL's policies ...

You can certainly lay the responsibility for the knife crime at the feet of socialism the public sector and labour as its executors.

I will lay good money that 99% of the culprits of knife crime have been given a terrible education (as a result of the state run socialist comprehensive system

and secondly that they come from families that are dependent on welfare which means that they have no aspirations beyond surviving on the streets because;

1. they went tp appalling schools
and

2. becaue their parents/peers et al were brought up as welfare dependents that they have little or no responsibility towards either themselves or to anyone else. Because of this (socialist) induced downward spiral they have nothing else to live for than get angry and behave like animals.

[The Lone Gunman]

Snaw: It does not matter whether crime occured under the Tories or not, NL cam to power under the mantra of "tough on crime, yadda yadda yadda". More and more this is proving to be just a sound bite.
They have had ample opportunity to set an example but have singularly failed and at the same time we see more and more rights being given to the criminals. Cheri has made a fortune out of "human rights" causes.
The human rights agenda was set when NL adopted the laws as proposed by the EU which at the time was opposed by the Tories stating that it was virtualy a criminals (and lawyers) charter.
We see an ever dwindling Police force being tied up with more and more red tape, busy hitting crime targets rather than nicking criminals whilst NL tell us we are safer because there are more community Bobbies on the streets.
Prisoners are being let out early due to a lack of space and so on and so on.......

NOT TOUGH ON CRIME realy is it.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

......- such as allowing spouses to file a joint tax return.

So yes, the current increase in Knife Crime is indeed down to New Labour policies who have created a benefits and taxation system that actually discourages strong families. Although that is a long way from suggesting that there was no knife crime under the Tories (just not the weekly report of another teenager knifed to death in the streets)

Hmm Which specific policies are you talking about here?
I mean, just as one example, joint taxation ended in 1990 under John Major......

[DodgyAgent]

Hmm Which specific policies are you talking about here?
I mean, just as one example, joint taxation ended in 1990 under John Major......

The policies are not so much policies in themselves but the way the socialists run the public sector. It goes like this:

1. We are made to feel guilty about having disposable income and the freedom to choose where we spend it
2. The socialists then point out all the poor people who are less well off than we are and say that we are being selfish and unfair.
3. The socialists then take huge amounts of tax off us to help the less fortunate than ourselves
4. What they actually do with our tax is to create and sustain a monolithic monopolistic suite of public services that are run mainly for the benefit of those who control them, secondly for the benefit of those who work in them and lastly to help the poor
5. Because the public services do not work, thousands of children leave school unable to read or write
6. illiterate working (no longer) class pupils then cannot get jobs and move onto welfare either as single parents (where having children gives girls som sort of purpose, meaning and importance to their lives, and young boys join gangs and commit crimes because this is all that is left to give them purpose inlife.
7 These people then have children of their own thus increasing the numbers of underclass welfare recipients.
8 More taxes are coerced out of as we are made to feel even more guilty (when all along the problem is nothing to do with us-working taxpayer), and more money is then spent on patching up the mess created by the socialists in the first place
9. So all the new jobs and initiatives created to clear up the problems created by the socialists in the first place (extra police, sure start, social workers, prisons) are filled by people who become caught in the welfare industry, who subsequently vote labour because having a career in the public sector counts them out for anything that carries pressure and responsibility.

Until someone (and it doesnt look like being the Tories) breaks this evil cycle then no amount of stop and search, no amount of taxation manipulation, social engineering or whatever will make the slightest difference.

[snaw]

The policies are not so much policies in themselves but the way the socialists run the public sector. It goes like this:

1. We are made to feel guilty about having disposable income and the freedom to choose where we spend it
2. The socialists then point out all the poor people who are less well off than we are and say that we are being selfish and unfair.
3. The socialists then take huge amounts of tax off us to help the less fortunate than ourselves
4. What they actually do with our tax is to create and sustain a monolithic monopolistic suite of public services that are run mainly for the benefit of those who control them, secondly for the benefit of those who work in them and lastly to help the poor
5. Because the public services do not work, thousands of children leave school unable to read or write
6. illiterate working (no longer) class pupils then cannot get jobs and move onto welfare either as single parents (where having children gives girls som sort of purpose, meaning and importance to their lives, and young boys join gangs and commit crimes because this is all that is left to give them purpose inlife.
7 These people then have children of their own thus increasing the numbers of underclass welfare recipients.
8 More taxes are coerced out of as we are made to feel even more guilty (when all along the problem is nothing to do with us-working taxpayer), and more money is then spent on patching up the mess created by the socialists in the first place
9. So all the new jobs and initiatives created to clear up the problems created by the socialists in the first place (extra police, sure start, social workers, prisons) are filled by people who become caught in the welfare industry, who subsequently vote labour because having a career in the public sector counts them out for anything that carries pressure and responsibility.

Until someone (and it doesnt look like being the Tories) breaks this evil cycle then no amount of stop and search, no amount of taxation manipulation, social engineering or whatever will make the slightest difference.

Yes indeed, go and look at that most capatalist of societies - the USA, where welfare is pretty minimal and you'll see no knife crime. No siree bob. They're all too busy shooting each other. Which is clearly the fault of the socialists. Of course

There is no one reason for this increase in knife crime, and no political party to blame. It's a complex issue, with complex causes and probably needs some difficult, and tough, solution. The simplixtic nature of some the cause and efects sweeping statements on this thread are truly staggeringly blinkered.

[DodgyAgent]

Yes indeed, go and look at that most capatalist of societies - the USA, where welfare is pretty minimal and you'll see no knife crime. No siree bob. They're all too busy shooting each other. Which is clearly the fault of the socialists. Of course

There is no one reason for this increase in knife crime, and no political party to blame. It's a complex issue, with complex causes and probably needs some difficult, and tough, solution. The simplixtic nature of some the cause and efects sweeping statements on this thread are truly staggeringly blinkered.

The root causes of crime are deprivation, there is nothing complex about it. if you look at any society capitalist or not, people need to have a cause or meaning to their lives. They need self respect and aspiration; sticking people on welfare does nothing, these people are as good as you and I, they just need the chances that you and I have had- the education for a start. Whether meaning in life manifests itself in taking responsibility for a family living off the land in the bush in Africa or gaining respect by being part of a gang living in an area of high unemployment in an inner city it does not matter. We live in a so called civilised society, yet it is a society that condones the existence of an underclass of deprived people. These same people are deprived because the state has decided to exclude them from the mainstream of life.

Why?

Because there are too many people with too many vested interests to, above all else, give the poor a decent education. People like you snaw are confused by this. You are confused because you think (wrongly) that your left wing credentials give you some sort of moral credibility. In actual fact your so called "socialist" credentials do nothing more than sustain an evil and destructive system that regularly churns out angry knife wielding young men and young women.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

If Socialism causes crime why has it risen recently? We have the least Socialist government for ages - it's Thatcherism lite - and crime rose under Thatcher - hardly a Socialist?