Oops - wrong man

[Francko]

One thing is for sure. The police are going to be a bit more cautious over the next few days, to avoid a repeat of what happened with the Brazillian guy. The terrorists know this, so what better time to go out strapped with explosives?

I doubt it. I think people would be more cautious about running away in the underground when someone claiming to be the police is pointing a gun at you.

[AtW]

I think people would be more cautious about running away in the underground when someone claiming to be the police is pointing a gun at you.

And so they should -- at least in a public place in broad daylight. Most people would get scared sh1tless and freeze when someone points a gun at them, its a natural human reaction, that's why running away was interpreted as a serious sign that he might just be going for it (blow up himself in a packed train).

[Not So Wise]

And so they should -- at least in a public place in broad daylight. Most people would get scared sh1tless and freeze when someone points a gun at them, its a natural human reaction, that's why running away was interpreted as a serious sign that he might just be going for it (blow up himself in a packed train).

No thats the normal reaction of someone who has never been in or had as part of their daily lives such violent situations

Give you a real senario that happened once, was in a bar in Spain, barman took some glass's out of the washer and put them on a cold surface.

Minute later two of them explode (hot and cold and glass do not mix), sounding like gun shots though the window

There was a mixture of people from all over Europe in that bar.
Most of them just jumped and looked around like startled ferrets going "What?!?!What?!?! What was that?"

Except the group from Northen Ireland, they were chewing carpet

Everyones "natural human reaction" is dictated by their past, while some would stop and stare when they see load of armed people rushing towards them in plain clothes, others will hit the deck and put their hands on their heads and others again will just run for their lives, depending on what such situations in the past have trained their instincts to do.

Now seems this guy comes from Brazil, a country notorious for corrupt and extreamly violent police, who have been known to run death squads that go as far as specificlly targeting children and violent kidnappings either for money or political reasons.

Coming from that kind of background ,running would be a perfectly logical "natural human reaction", if he had commited some petty crime or even if you were perfectly honest

You would only sit and "reason" that this is not Brazil after the fact, instinct will rule the moment.

Did he make mistake in running? Sure he did
Did the susposedly professional, highly trained not to make such mistakes police make a bigger mistake in shooting an innocent man? Yes they did

He has already paid for his mistake with his life

Whatever person or persons who are responsible for this mans death, be it the trigger man, the inteligence people, the head of the operation or even the whole "shoot to kill policy" now need to be held accountable and if their mistake was big enough, pay for it.

[AtW]

Whatever person or persons who are responsible for this mans death, be it the trigger man, the inteligence people, the head of the operation or even the whole "shoot to kill policy" now need to be held accountable and if their mistake was big enough, pay for it.

Firearms officers were willing to lay down their arms - its volunteer duty - in case of that guy with wooden leg, this is a much more straightforward case and I think its a certainity that they will hand in their licenses if the policeman who shot the guy will be convicted.

If you come to live into a foreign country - and he was here 3 years already - then its your responsibility to know essential local customs, shootings might be common in Brazil but its not the case here and he should have learnt that during his stay. More importantly he should have seen that even police normally does not carry firearms -- these are just very rare in this country.

From what I can see on BBC's site majority of opinions posted there seem to be in support of the police, so my view is anything but weird or unique as I recognise it normally looks like.

[Not So Wise]

From what I can see on BBC's site majority of opinions posted there seem to be in support of the police, so my view is anything but weird or unique as I recognise it normally looks like.

Never said it was weird, but having the majority behind you means nothing.
Take the case of the British soldiers in Iraq now faceing war crimes trials.

Majority seem object to that so soon after the london bombing, while i sit here wondering what has that to do with anything? If they broke the Law what does it matter what others do?

Majority support those who "serve them" even when they get it wrong, but that does not make the majority right, if anything history proves majority is rarely right

For me the biggest culprits in this shooting are those in installed a global "shoot to kill" policy. That is a military style policy, not a police one. And as Iraq shows you cannot police a civilian poplulation with a military format because every irreversible mistake you make like this is just another sector of the population you turn against you

They want to blame the terrorists for this mans death, but sorry for me the only ones to blame is those who gave into the fear and gave the terrorists exactly what they wanted.

The only thing we have to be thankfull for is the man was not an innocent muslim, because if he had been the terrorists would have got another ton of recruits and we would have riots in the streets, exactly what the terrorists want.

[s2budd]

Oops - wrong man

Well done SO19
They had a second to make a decision and thay made the right one.
It is a shame but there it is.

Had they wounded him and he did have a working detinator connected to explosives around his waist then there may have neem more dead.

[AtW]

Never said it was weird, but having the majority behind you means nothing.

Yeah I agree on that, it was weak point to make.

My view on the situation still stands: had that guy not displayed incredibly foolish response by trying to actively run away then he would have been alive now.

Same goes for cars approaching checkpoints too fast -- I am not an eager supporter of USA actions in Iraq, but its fair to say that cars that speed up to checkpoints get shot to pieces: its not first time so for the sake of your own life don't act in manner that can provoke deadly response, be it in Iraw while driving or in London when ordered to stop by armed men who arein all probability relate to the police.

More important question is this -- terrorists are still at large and in all probability there are other cells in the UK waiting their turn.

[BobTheCrate]

the victim's split second decision

had that guy not displayed incredibly foolish response by trying to actively run away then he would have been alive now.

Why incredibly foolish response ?

He had a split second himself to decide if these 3 individuals were really Police or criminals or terrorists intent on harming him.

He made the wrong decision of course but hardly an unreasonable decision given the situation he suddenly found him self in. And hardly a choice worthy of the condemnation you repeatedly pour on him. Remember he was a totally innocent man. Try remembering that before you condemn the way he handled his own split second decision.

[AtW]

And hardly a choice worthy of the condemnation you repeatedly pour on him.

His mistake cost him his life, but hopefully it will save others from repeating it.

If you believe that his choice is worthy of repeating then its fine by me.

[BobTheCrate]

I didn't say his choice was worthy of repeating.

I said he had to make a split second decision himself for a situation he suddenly found him self in. And that it is not fair to describe such a frightening split second decision as 'ludicrous', which is how you describe it.