Oops - wrong man

[DavidContractor]

7 times

According to the BBC the bloke was shot seven times in the head.

7 is a lucky number for some you know.

[Paco]

How's this for a possible scenario :

They start following this bloke because he's come out of an address which they have intelligence is dodgy. He's not a specific target, but he's wearing a warm jacket in summer and perhaps fits somebody's profile of a terrorist (dark skin etc.) so they want to keep an eye on him. They follow him on his bus ride but when he enters the tube station they decide enough is enough and challenge him. At this point he freaks and legs it towards the nearest train, jumping a ticket barrier in the process, and the police sh1t themselves as it now looks like they have a desperate suicide bomber on their hands determined to do maximum damage. So they chase him and shoot him before he manages to get into a carriage.

This is obviously pure speculation, but in running like he did he maybe went from possible to definite terrorist very quickly in the eyes of the police and gave them very little time in which to make a decision. I still think they made the right decision given the circumstances, but its a terrible price to pay for overstaying your visa.

There's also not much of an 'intelligence failure', a favourite of the media, in this scenario as he was wasn't a definite target until he scarpered.

[Rebecca Loos]

let's face it, AtW is right and this discussion has only been allowed to go on for so long because we are all baffled by our failure to disagree with the mad Russian.

[Lucifer Box]

Well done, Paco, someone talking some sense in amongst all the hand-wringing from the armchair anti-terrorism experts.

And to be fair, he didn't stop to validate his travel card at the barriers either, assuming the tax-dodging illegal immigrant even had one.

[AtW]

Sounds very plausible Paco.

It is possible there are trigger happy in armed police, but you have to look at the scene -- in this one everything must have been covered with CCTV and lots of witnesses, its not just words of 2 police officers, there will be plenty of evidence to look at to see if what police say (like if they ordered him to stop) is true.

If you think police is being unreasonable then compare how Russian police works: Beslan school stormed using flamethrowers, tanks, heavy maching guns etc resulting in lots of hostages killed by police itself.

[BobTheCrate]

I have no problem with your supposition Paco until you say at the end ...

"... So they chase him and shoot him before he manages to get into a carriage."

Wrong. They did not shoot him before he got onto the carriage.

Two of the officers physically brought him to the ground inside the carriage. According to witnesses inside that carriage, they then held him down. A 3rd officer then entered the carriage, holding a pistol in his left hand, raised it and shot the fellow still with the 2 officers holding him down, in the head approx 5 times.

I don't understand why so many consistantly fail to acknowledge this crucial distinction as described by the witnesses.

[AtW]

I don't understand why so many consistantly fail to acknowledge this crucial distinction as described by the witnesses.

They did not want to take chances to search him -- one bullet in the head is as good as 5, the only difference is that if you don't want to take chances then you shoot 5 or 7 times.

[Paco]

I don't understand why so many consistantly fail to acknowledge this crucial distinction as described by the witnesses.

Because I don't think the exact location is particularly relevant. I suppose I should have amended my post to say "...before he manages to get into a carriage and detonate his bomb" to get my point across more forcibly. You seem to be trying to paint it as some kind police execution, with the officer calmly and coldy standing over the suspect before pulling the trigger. The same eyewitness accounts could just as easily describe the first two coppers to catch up with him dragging him to the floor with a third guy piling in behind and emptying his gun before the suspect could press the big red 'boom' button. It was probably all over in a few seconds, hence the disparities in some of the accounts.

Is it really crucial whether all this happened on the platform or in the train? Seems to me its just matter of where he was when they caught up with him, as they didn't want to risk shooting at a moving target on a (possibly) crowded station.

[BobTheCrate]

Is it really crucial whether all this happened on the platform or in the train?

Of course not. It is crucial though that you failed to mention this suspect had been physically caught and restrained before he was shot umpteen times.

It seems I'm very much in a minority in that most people like yourself don't care and aren't the slightest bit concerned enough to even acknowledge the point.

[DodgyAgent]

Strange priorities

I see the guilt ridden liberals are more worried about what the police are doing than what the terrorists are doing. It transpires dear "Bob" that this Brazilian had overstayed his visa. OK so a Brazilian "gets it", I feel much safer knowing that there are police out on the streets who are prepared to act rather than pander to politically correct liberal attitudes.