Immigration thread to re-balance the forum

[snaw]

I think my views are pretty generally known to be left ish. So watched this programme with interest and one good point made by the white author living in Bradford was when he said - nobody asked us if we wanted this.

I approve of immigration in general, but equally recognise many, if not a majority of people living here might not. Seemed like a fair point to me - the kind of mass immigration we're talking of over the last 5 years or so has just happened without the inhabitants being asked if they mind. I suspect I know the answer to that one ...

[PAH]

According to that YouGuv poll, they obviously do mind now, but it's too late to start putting limits or controls on it.

I liken it to those big Ibiza night clubs where they let too many people in. They're great for the first few hours but gradually it gets so you can't move at all, and it spoils it for everyone. No wonder some people resort to drugs to try to improve the experience. Probably cheaper than paying 10 euros for a bottle of beer or water if you manage to fight your way to the bar.

[expat]

What are the major causes of that?

Does the fact that many of the immigrants/migrants regularly send their spare hard-earned income back to their families abroad have a significant impact? Sort of a cash drain.

No, if they are paying taxes, which I believe most EU people do (as well as the natives, at any rate).

Public services are paid out of taxes; it doesn't matter to that how much of their own money they send home.

UK GDP growth has been less that virtually all of our industrialised competitors since the 1970s. GDP per head is the lowest in G7. We just don't have the money to fund an advanced public infrastructure any more. We as a nation have become steadily poorer over the last 30 years because we don't make and we don't sell. What we are seeing is our relative poverty.

[sasguru]

The fundamental problem is UK productivity is lower than almost all of its competitors. We are basically lazy and inefficient.
Blaming the minute amount submitted abroad by Polish cleaners and fruit-pickers is the usual scapegoating.

HTH

[PAH]

We as a nation have become steadily poorer over the last 30 years because we don't make and we don't sell. What we are seeing is our relative poverty.

Right, so there's more benefit to being a predominantly manufacturing nation than a service oriented one? Another fine mess the govermin have got us into.

Maybe it will all be better for us when we get to the USE (United States of Europe) stage, as there might not be the perceived benefit of coming to the UK for work/benefits over other european countries.

[DimPrawn]

The fundamental problem is UK productivity is lower than almost all of its competitors. We are basically lazy and inefficient.


HTH

I was going to counter your argument, but can't be bothered.

HTH

[PAH]

We are basically lazy and inefficient.

There certainly needs to be something done about all the layabouts claiming benefits, particularly incapacity. I know several people who have nothing wrong with them but they have been scamming the system for years.

Then the government say the migrants are only filling jobs that the british can't do. Maybe for those at the skilled end, but not the fruit and veg pickers.

[SueEllen]

Yes it does.

If it's sent home, then VAT isn't charged in this country on what it buys...

The government just has to increase taxes.

Ok they already have if you are low paid, drink and smoke.

[expat]

Yes it does.

If it's sent home, then VAT isn't charged in this country on what it buys...

You are right of course, but the numbers and amounts would have to be huge to make such a difference.

[sasguru]

There certainly needs to be something done about all the layabouts claiming benefits, particularly incapacity. I know several people who have nothing wrong with them but they have been scamming the system for years.

Then the government say the migrants are only filling jobs that the british can't do. Maybe for those at the skilled end, but not the fruit and veg pickers.

It's not the people claiming benefits. Germany has more.
It's the people in work are generally not as educated, skilled or dedicated as their European counterparts. You only have to compare a piece of British workmanship of any kind to a a German one to see the vast gulf in quality.
Many reasons for this, but I believe it's the lack of training at the lower end of society. Germany has a a brilliant apprenticeship scheme for the less-academic. We used to - what happened to it?
At the top end, British management is poor. We've all worked for managers who are numpties. There is cult of personality in most large companies so that the loudest and not necessarily best qualified gets the job.