Lance Corporal Stephen - didn't come home

[Moscow Mule]

No no no Moscow, Im not letting you off that easy. By your logic if somone has not lived/worked in a specific field they have no right to comment, this makes this forum pretty much null and void.

Now please apologise to me and agree to think before placing your chubby cheese puff encrusted fingers on the keyboard in future.

But by your logic I can comment from a position of knowledge on Thermo-nuclear dynamics?

My logic is thus;

zero years in military = zero time thinking about commitment made by military = no right to talk about what the military are for or about.

Please try to understand the point I'm making before refuting some other point or hurling insults.

Now, if you're not going to debate the points at hand, I'll declare you the loser. Please go away and learn to debate.

[SueEllen]

But by your logic I can comment from a position of knowledge on Thermo-nuclear dynamics?

My logic is thus;

zero years in military = zero time thinking about commitment made by military = no right to talk about what the military are for or about.
.

That is very silly logic.

You don't know what HRH family and friends' do or have done, or where HRH has worked.

[Moscow Mule]

That is very silly logic.

You don't know what HRH family and friends' do or have done, or where HRH has worked.

He's been flippant about the military, I'd suggest that his comments answer your question.

If he tells me (in all honesty) that he's spent more than 10 minutes thinking about the commitment soldiers give this country and the treatment they deserve in return then he can have his apology.

[Bagpuss]

So you are happy with the military being an arm of the liebour spin machine?

Republican

[HRH]

He's been flippant about the military, I'd suggest that his comments answer your question.

If he tells me (in all honesty) that he's spent more than 10 minutes thinking about the commitment soldiers give this country and the treatment they deserve in return then he can have his apology.

Sue Ellen is of course spot on again Moscow. FYI my cousin got back from Afghanistan 2 months ago and a young lad I used to play football with was wounded also in Afghanistan. I have spent much longer than '10 minutes' thinking about the commitment the soldiers make but Im also acutely aware that they know the risks of joining the military.

And as for your logic, I do not even know where to begin picking holes in your argument, let me give you an example...

I have spent zero time as a professional footballer but I defy you or anyone else to stop me offering my opinion on the game. As I said before- you are better off holding your hands up now and admitting your point was wrong or risk being made to look more foolish.

over to you.....

[Moscow Mule]

Sue Ellen is of course spot on again Moscow. FYI my cousin got back from Afghanistan 2 months ago and a young lad I used to play football with was wounded also in Afghanistan. I have spent much longer than '10 minutes' thinking about the commitment the soldiers make but Im also acutely aware that they know the risks of joining the military.

Right, You obviously do know something about it then - why are you so disparaging of soldiers (and their families) who have a conscience about what they are doing?

Answer the points below...

Soldiers do know what they are getting into, but they would have to be village class idiots if they didn't question (in their own minds) why they have been sent to a meaningless war by a government that doesn't understand the duty of care they owe to the military.

The military's job is to protect the interests of the country.

The pertinent question is whether or not removing a tinpot dictator with zero WMD capability then policing the mess left behind is in the interests of anybody, let alone Britain.

....I have spent zero time as a professional footballer but I defy you or anyone else to stop me offering my opinion on the game....

Have you ever played football? I'm going to assume yes, as most young boys get the chance at school. Then I also assume you have a basic grasp of the rules and strategy? Then why not offer your opinion?

It will probably be a basic one, with little understanding of the nuance and intricacies of the game, but yes, still an opinion.

[sasguru]

NO HE DOESN'T. A soldiers job is to do what he/she is told not to question why he/she is in a particular country. This is where people get it all wrong.



UNDERSTAND??

So the Nazis and SS soldiers were blameless? I thought Nuremberg was all about establishing the principle that following orders is not an excuse.

Cretin.

[shaunbhoy]

I thought Nuremberg was all about establishing the principle that following orders is not an excuse?

Not exclusively, it was also about the winners punishing the losers. Had the Nazis won all that would have been different would have been the faces in the dock.
However you are right when you contend that soldiers in our army do at least have a choice. If your moral compass cannot point towards accepting what orders you are given you can at least choose to resign. Just hope that your notice period is not spent anywhere too hostile and dangerous.

[AlfredJPruffock]

So the Nazis and SS soldiers were blameless? I thought Nuremberg was all about establishing the principle that following orders is not an excuse.

Cretin.

It it interesting to reflect that The Nuremberg Trials also stated that "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime".

And interesting to read SB's comments - he has performed Millitary Service - unlike myself - although it is true to say I know a few people who have served in the forces ,including a former Major from the Black Watch who would certainly contest the notion that a soldier must obey orders - irrespective of the morals or ethics of that order.

And that - is a good thing in my view.

[shaunbhoy]

AJP,
I am not saying that it is entirely unfeasible to perhaps contest certain orders should they unequivocally be reckless, ridiculous, or morally flawed. However, it is no basis for a successful military venture and should very much be the exception rather than the rule. At least we are blessed with an Armed Forces that is entirely composed of volunteers so people can make some sort of personal choice before embarking upon such careers. That said, I personally wish the Ministry of Defence would spend much more of their time thinking "defensively", and a sight less imagining themselves to be the Ministry of Attack!