For the warmongers here...

[fiddle]

The TV news has been full of the London bombings and most bulletins were extended.

Just bear in mind that most days for at least the last year there have been more bombs and bigger deathtolls every single day in Iraq.

Remind me again why it was such a good idea and how the terroists are being defeated.

[AtW]

Careful fiddle, the warmongers tend to accuse those who don't agree with them of effectively supporting the enemy.

[DodgyAgent]

the war

whether the war was right or wrong, there is a fundamental issue here. The issue is the threat that Western style democracies will undermine the religious strongholds of middle eastern governments. The prime example is Saudi. The Saudis see the freedoms enjoyed by western people (in particular women)- their meritocratic societies, their accountable government institutions and their freedoms and wealth... the Saudis want these for themselves, so pressure increases on the Saudi totalitarian government.. What gives? either the government relinquishes its power or it tightens its control of the people or it undernmines western democracies.

So in essence we are invading these countries whether by use of force or by just existing.. there is no way that our influence can stop asserting itself upon the governments of Iran. Pakistan, Saudi etc... we have media to thank for that.

So to attribute terrorist activity to the invasion of Iraq is naive. Our very lifestyles, our wealth , our culture etc etc ids paraded in front of the people of the rest of the world on a day to day basis, and they want it for themselves.. THAT is why the religious extremists will continue to wage war against the West.

[AtW]

So to attribute terrorist activity to the invasion of Iraq is naive.

A lot of militants got and still gain real-world experience in urban warware in Iraq. A lot of them will get killed, but today's experience shows that a handful of people can get whole megapolis to a stindstill. Iraq became the kind of training ground Al Quaeda could only dream to have.

And tell me Dodgy, what approach would you advocate, if God forbid, a UK version of Beslan will happen? Are you going to storm the school just like Putin did?

[DodgyAgent]

A good point

A lot of militants got and still gain real-world experience in urban warware in Iraq. A lot of them will get killed, but today's experience shows that a handful of people can get whole megapolis to a stindstill. Iraq became the kind of training ground Al Quaeda could only dream to have

That is a different perspective and an interesting point AtW. I still believe that these people will commit terrorist acts whether they have the necessary experience or not. I also believe that Saddam Hussein could have been contained or removed by other means than going to war (given the benefit of hindsight)

[hattra]

The TV news has been full of the London bombings and most bulletins were extended.

Just bear in mind that most days for at least the last year there have been more bombs and bigger deathtolls every single day in Iraq.

Remind me again why it was such a good idea and how the terroists are being defeated.

It's still less than half what Saddam managed to get rid of every day for 30 years

[AtW]

I still believe that these people will commit terrorist acts whether they have the necessary experience or not.

Experience makes all the difference in the world.

Those militants now learn how to work under cover in a country where liberties don't exist: checkpoints and stuff, after surviving in Iraq it will be a childs game for them to stay undercover here.

Same goes for explosives -- knowing where to plant the bomb, how to direct the blast, shrapnel materials penetraring properties -- all that stuff they learn now there will assist greatly in making seriously deadly blasts on civilian targets.

Iraq have become a true training ground for terrorists now: it was not before, but you bet your arse it is now.

--

I hope this country will have a proportional and measured response to this terrorism: I hope no bloody PATRIOT Acts will make its way and people will keep enjoying their freedoms. It seems that this is how it will happen as people appear to be more mature and measured in this country than in the USA. Thanks God for that, if only UK was not in that Iraq trap.

[DodgyAgent]

Experience makes all the difference in the world.

Those militants now learn how to work under cover in a country where liberties don't exist: checkpoints and stuff, after surviving in Iraq it will be a childs game for them to stay undercover here.

Same goes for explosives -- knowing where to plant the bomb, how to direct the blast, shrapnel materials penetraring properties -- all that stuff they learn now there will assist greatly in making seriously deadly blasts on civilian targets.

Iraq have become a true training ground for terrorists now: it was not before, but you bet your arse it is now.

--

I hope this country will have a proportional and measured response to this terrorism: I hope no bloody PATRIOT Acts will make its way and people will keep enjoying their freedoms. It seems that this is how it will happen as people appear to be more mature and measured in this country than in the USA. Thanks God for that, if only UK was not in that Iraq trap.

This is England not Russia

[AtW]

This is England not Russia

And I appreciate it greatly -- reaction of scumbag Putin to terrorist act of his own making in Beslan was to make grab for more power. With all shortcomings of Blair he did not make career on blood of people.

[WGAS]

With all shortcomings of Blair he did not make career on blood of people.

Well no, apart from the death of David Kelly whose death was declared suicide despite ambulance crews on the scene stating he couldn't have done it without assistance.

Blair has also got the blood of many British soldiers on his hands using Iraq to bolster his influence in the US