Contracting in Netherlands

[threaded]

I appreciate the point, Francko, but I do know the difference (my Spanish is like that) and I was indeed talking about learning well enough to use at work. I know it's a lot of effort but it is feasible: my question is whether it will pay off in terms on more work in NL.

Absolutely. Dutch is not that hard a language to learn. Nowhere near as hard as Danish I can tell you.

[expat]

Absolutely. Dutch is not that hard a language to learn. Nowhere near as hard as Danish I can tell you.

Well, Frankco is not wrong that having a few tourist phrases is not the same as being able to speak in the office, and indeed some people don't know the difference.

In French and German I do phone interviews in the language, at my request. It quickly answers the question of whether my level is good enough (and I wouldn't do that if it weren't!). That's the level I mean: and the question, is it worth achieving in Dutch if you really want to stay working there; or is it not worth it because they are really looking for a native speaker, or even a Dutch person specifically?

[sunnysan]

Languages

I am learning Russian at the moment, one class a week.

Either I am thick as p1gtulip or English is actually more like Esparanto but Russian is really difficlut

[expat]

I am learning Russian at the moment, one class a week.

Either I am thick as p1gtulip or English is actually more like Esparanto but Russian is really difficlut

3 dogs met in the street: an English dog, a Russian dog, and a French dog.
What's your name? said the Russian dog to the English dog.
Rover, he said.
How do you spell that?
Just the way you say it: R-O-V-E-R.

And what's yours? said the English dog to the Russian.
Boris, he replied.
How do you spell that?
Just the way you say it: B-O-R-I-S.

So what's your name? they said to the French dog
Fido, he replied.
How do you spell that?
Just the way you say it: P-H-Y-D-E-A-U-X.


Russian is hard? at least it's logical.

[Dow Jones]

Double Dutch

Depends what level you are. At programmer/tester level, English should be enough, however as a PM/BA, you are expected to attend meetings with senior users/board members who do NOT have to speak English. BTW, 'Dutch-speakers' is occasionally a code for Saffers. Bit like BBR in France.

[Francko]

I appreciate the point, Francko, but I do know the difference (my Spanish is like that) and I was indeed talking about learning well enough to use at work. I know it's a lot of effort but it is feasible: my question is whether it will pay off in terms on more work in NL.

Not only this difference but the most subtle one between speaking the language and mastering it. If you don't master it you can speak but you'll never be entirely effectively with words and every single native speaker will be able to shut you down if they wanted. So many times in meetings I could not be effective simply because I cannot put words with as much power as needed as any native can do (apart from milan, of course), despite at least I don't have to do an internal translation as people normally do before many years they speak the language. So my answer is still that if language is essential as in many client interfacing positions you still have a big disadvantage despite being able to speak more or less correctly.

[Rantor]

.... So my answer is still that if language is essential as in many client interfacing positions you still have a big disadvantage despite being able to speak more or less correctly.

Or you can have skills that are sufficently in demand as to make the language issue a moot point. I'm doing some pre-sales work where the client is a very language sensitive organisation and they are happy to work in English during this process as they feel they are getting somewhere . Mind you, I'm not sure they'd be so happy doing it in French!

I speak French at a fairly middling level though I struggle to read complex newspaper editorials etc. What saved me was quickly getting to a pointwhere I could understand stroppy, argumentative French.

Being in a bilibngual country is weird as neither group speaks the other's language to the exalted heights you are talking about (though the Flemish come much closer than the Waloons/Bruxelloise.)

I'm currently learning Dutch and it is a fairly logical language for an anglophone - compared to French anyway! However, where I live it is difficult to advance your level of spoken Dutch for a variety of reasons not least of which,is the fact that foreigners speaking Dutch actually annoys the locals even more than them not speaking it.

Still, I understand enough to have followed the conversation at the next restaurant table yesterday where some twunt spent forty minutes whingeing on about how many people were speaking french or english to the (Italian) waiter. Sometimes I think the only saving grace of the EU is to make it difficult for eejits like him to start some ye-olde-europe village burning.

[lORD lUCAN]

Try asking for a cup of tea in Norway...


PS: this is my first point in General this year

Jeg vil gjerne har en te.....>?

Or can i have a cup of tea !

piece of piss!

[expat]

...So my answer is still that if language is essential as in many client interfacing positions you still have a big disadvantage despite being able to speak more or less correctly.

Understood.

I might add, though, that if a contract requires a German-speaker, I will apply for it. Occasionally the agent will qualify that it requires a native speaker because of the nature of the job; but usually this is not so and a foreigner with Office German is acceptable.

I.e. most of the time "German speaker" means "speaker required, native speaker not necessary". Is this also true for Dutch contracts most of the time, or is the native requirement much more common?

Thanks to all those who gave interesting answers to interesting but different questions!

[Fred Bloggs]

A slightly different view point here, but my experiences of working in the Netherlands is that the Dutch like the Brits over there because we uncomplainingly work much longer hours in much more unsocial conditions than they are prepared to. My findings are that the Dutch guys love to be in charge and they relish the opportunity to give the British (and the Turkish guys too) the stuff they find a bit hard or technically risky. They then love to bask in the glory when the job gets finished on time and to budget. In my experience, meetings are usually conducted in English when there is a Brit present but much conferring goes on in Dutch when they don't want you to understand what they're thinking/scheming. I don't think generally Dutch is needed to work there overall, particularly if they need your skill set. They're pretty liberal folk in that respect IMO.

I'm not being too unfair I don't think. I think it's pretty much the same in other countries but perhaps just a bit more noticeable in Holland. The Dutch themselves? I enjoy socialising with the natives more than working with them to be honest. Your mileage may, of course, vary.