Contracting in Netherlands

[tim123]

Seems to me there are more and more NL contracts asking for Dutch speakers. Is there any point in learning Dutch in order to be able to go for those, or do they generally mean native speakers?

I suspect that they ask for Dutch for 'other' reasons.

Except for the mega company that I work for, few Swedish engineering companies will consider non Swedes for 'temporary' positions. This most definately isn't because they can't/wont speak English.

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to speculate as to why.

tim

[expat]

Bottom Line - Learning Dutch is futile because they want a Dutch person - not speaker .Learn a language where the natives appreciate your efforts - eg German of French.

Thanks AJP, that's what I suspected.

I do speak German and French but I was wondering about the chances of basing myself in NL and getting all my work there.

[padinka]

Having worked there for 3 years -
Bottom Line - Learning Dutch is futile because they want a Dutch person - not speaker .Learn a language where the natives appreciate your efforts - eg German of French.

Sorry old chap, but I have to disagree. Many Dutch companies unsurprisingly use Dutch as their working language, both in conversation and for documentation, reports etc. Not all of the world is speaking American yet.

My experience is that if you take the time to actually learn and use the language then your efforts will be appreciated. The cloggies know that their language is spoken hardly anywhere else so anyone that tries will be encouraged.

What *does* piss them off however are the typical pommie 'lager-lout' contractors that come into a company and make no effort whatsoever to integrate or take part in social events.

So 'Dutch language skills' means just that. If you have made the effort to speak the language fluently enough for work then you will be welcomed, irrespective of your nationality.

Groetjes uit Amsterdam...

Padinka

[SandyDown]

Having worked there for 3 years -

1 No matter whow hard you try to converse in Dutch - th Dutch will always reply in English

2 After a year they will complain bitterly about your lack of Dutch speaking skills - in English of course .

GOTO 1

Before I lived in Holland I could spek German so despite the fact that I could read and understand Dutch - after a couple of years - they still wont speak Dutch with you.

Catch 22

If the advertisement says Dutch speaker they really mean a Dutch person (but cant because of discrimination legislation)- thats because , their work culture is alien to what we know - dont be fooled by their fluency in English - if you do not understand Dutch culture ie you are not Dutch - you will make many geaffes in the workplace - seen many a UK contrcator come to grief over this - eg the Dutch do not haev managers as we undersand - its all from the Polder system .

You Aint much - if you Aint Dutch

Bottom Line - Learning Dutch is futile because they want a Dutch person - not speaker .Learn a language where the natives appreciate your efforts - eg German of French.

Alf - I worked there and I loved it, they all loved teaching me Dutch phrases and were impressed every time I said something, perhaps your pronunciation was painful to their ear?... OK please please be honest, if you had to choose, would you prefer to work with a Dutchman or an English assholeman??

[Joe Black]

Having worked there for 3 years -

1 No matter how hard you try to converse in Dutch - the Dutch will always reply in English

2 After a year they will complain bitterly about your lack of Dutch speaking skills - in English of course .

GOTO 1

Before I lived in Holland I could speak German so despite the fact that I could read and understand Dutch - after a couple of years - they still wont speak Dutch with you.

Catch 22

If the advertisement says Dutch speaker they really mean a Dutch person (but can't because of discrimination legislation) - that's because , their work culture is alien to what we know - dont be fooled by their fluency in English - if you do not understand Dutch culture ie you are not Dutch - you will make many geaffes in the workplace - seen many a UK contrcator come to grief over this - eg the Dutch do not haev managers as we undersand - its all from the Polder system .

You Aint much - if you Aint Dutch

Bottom Line - Learning Dutch is futile because they want a Dutch person - not speaker .Learn a language where the natives appreciate your efforts - eg German of French.

AJP, for a moment there I thought you were describing the Flemish.

[Joe Black]

My experience is that if you take the time to actually learn and use the language then your efforts will be appreciated. The cloggies know that their language is spoken hardly anywhere else so anyone that tries will be encouraged.

What *does* piss them off however are the typical pommie 'lager-lout' contractors that come into a company and make no effort whatsoever to integrate or take part in social events.

So 'Dutch language skills' means just that. If you have made the effort to speak the language fluently enough for work then you will be welcomed, irrespective of your nationality.

Groetjes uit Amsterdam...

Padinka

Sometimes...sometimes not. Certainly more not in the case of their fellow 'dutch' speakers south of the border.

Alf - I worked there and I loved it, they all loved teaching me Dutch phrases and were impressed every time I said something, perhaps your pronunciation was painful to their ear?... OK please please be honest, if you had to choose, would you prefer to work with a Dutchman or an English assholeman??

What is it with expats, endlessly dissing the country they came from, or was it just never their country?

Groetekes vanuit Belgie...

[Francko]

Seems to me there are more and more NL contracts asking for Dutch speakers. Is there any point in learning Dutch in order to be able to go for those, or do they generally mean native speakers?

You should distinguish between the ability to learn a language to order a burger in a local restaurant or to chat up other people and the ability of learning in a language in a way that you can be productive in an office environment. For the second, in any language, you need years and years of training (unless you work in the entertainment business and your peculiar expressions might actually become amusing). All of us foreigners with a strong command of english did study it since we were children otherwise it would have not been possible.So my advise is to leave the hope that you can learn a language with a reasonable amount of effort to use it for work (unless the language is not important but might be a plus that you can have a chat with your colleagues during your lunch or coffee break).

Writing a few sentences in dutch on this board or Threaded writing in danish just gives the impression of a child dressing up as an adult. Do it in a forum of dutch/danish speakers and hear the loughs coming out of the screen.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Alf - I worked there and I loved it, they all loved teaching me Dutch phrases and were impressed every time I said something, perhaps your pronunciation was painful to their ear?... OK please please be honest, if you had to choose, would you prefer to work with a Dutchman or an English assholeman??

Oh - English - sans doubt

[expat]

You should distinguish between the ability to learn a language to order a burger in a local restaurant or to chat up other people and the ability of learning in a language in a way that you can be productive in an office environment. For the second, in any language, you need years and years of training (unless you work in the entertainment business and your peculiar expressions might actually become amusing). All of us foreigners with a strong command of english did study it since we were children otherwise it would have not been possible.So my advise is to leave the hope that you can learn a language with a reasonable amount of effort to use it for work (unless the language is not important but might be a plus that you can have a chat with your colleagues during your lunch or coffee break)....

I appreciate the point, Francko, but I do know the difference (my Spanish is like that) and I was indeed talking about learning well enough to use at work. I know it's a lot of effort but it is feasible: my question is whether it will pay off in terms on more work in NL.

[threaded]

Writing a few sentences in dutch on this board or Threaded writing in danish just gives the impression of a child dressing up as an adult. Do it in a forum of dutch/danish speakers and hear the loughs coming out of the screen.

Han er dansk, ikke? Oh I do scribble in Danish fora. On one I was told to stop faking being English, as the quality of my Danish gave me away...

There're lots of ex-pats and assorted foreigners out here in Denmark, and once you've done a language course or two you're more skilled as rarely does a Dane have as wide a vocabulary. Which is why, I reckon, so many foreigners end up in high positions in the civil service here: they're generally the only one in the office who can understand the instructions passed down from above. Thinking on it though, 'kancellisprog' is a foreign language to most Danes as well.

Example if you're a foreigner coming to Denmark, to work in the civil service etc., the language course is classroom time of 6 hours a week for 3 years. That's more work than many locals do on a degree course...