Contracting in Netherlands

[oracleslave]

The problem with the european languages is that they are too similar each other so there is a false belief that we are writing well in a foreign language. In reality what appears good to us will not appear the same to native speaker despite being sintactically or semantically correct. You should study japanese to get a better picture of this, then you realise that writing is another skill indeed. Or to make another example the italian that they speak and write in the canton "ticino" in Switzerland might be accademically correct but the language is a species in constant evolution with occasional fallbacks in the past. You won't catch it in its full extent unless you have grown up with it. My posts are an example. I don't make more spelling mistakes than the majority of you (with the exception of Milan who makes way more spelling mistakes than I do) but yet the ones I make are of higher severity because I cannot ponder a proper weight for each word, they are all not native to me so mispelling "laugh" for me is as easy/hard as mispelling Aberystwyth.

too similar to

to a native

sintactically

Italian

academically

fullest extent

are not all

HTH

[threaded]

What possible context could there be for this item other than nailed to the wall of a house?

I can see that (similar to German) you might need to decline the word differently depending upon the case of the sentence, but that doesn't create a different word.

tim

The context is in what it is there for. Anyways here's a list: 'fodliste', 'fodpanel', 'gulvliste', 'panelliste', 'sparkeplade'

hmm, just thought up a couple more now but I'm not so sure they're 'real' Danish words, so would have to check with the Dictionary.

Oh yes, they also decline: fodliste, fodlisten, fodlister, fodlisterne etc.

I can think of eight different names for skirting board in English, also several names for the various parts of a skirting board. Lets see how many the congregation can think of...

HTH

[Francko]

sintactically

syntactically

[threaded]

What possible context could there be for this item other than nailed to the wall of a house?

One reason I like old houses, new ones just have a lump of wood nailed to the wall. Lifeless seried ranks of breeze block and concrete monstrosoties with a thin brick facing lacking soul. They're one of the things I blame these problem teenagers on: if you force people to live in an environment that looks brutal, you brutalise the people who live there.

[Joe Black]

The problem with the european languages is that they are too similar each other so there is a false belief that we are writing well in a foreign language. In reality what appears good to us will not appear the same to native speaker despite being sintactically or semantically correct. You should study japanese to get a better picture of this, then you realise that writing is another skill indeed. Or to make another example the italian that they speak and write in the canton "ticino" in Switzerland might be accademically correct but the language is a species in constant evolution with occasional fallbacks in the past. You won't catch it in its full extent unless you have grown up with it. My posts are an example. I don't make more spelling mistakes than the majority of you (with the exception of Milan who makes way more spelling mistakes than I do) but yet the ones I make are of higher severity because I cannot ponder a proper weight for each word, they are all not native to me so mispelling "laugh" for me is as easy/hard as mispelling Aberystwyth.

oracleslave, you appear to have beaten me on the spelling, but where's the grammar smiley?

"Exceptions don't make the rule."

It's not a case of exceptions, but presumptions.

I'd be the first to admit that the general level of second language skills amongst most native English speakers is not very good, verging at times on abysmal. On the other hand the presumption of many of our European friends that this is always the case, or that because of a few hours a week at school and perhaps watching the Simpsons, or listening to the odd song or two, their foreign language skills are better than their counterpart trying to speak their language is quite often far from true.

Perhaps if English speakers weren't so tolerant of mistakes such as shown above and did like a friend of mine here, answering "wat?", "wablieft?" or the equivalent, then such presumptions might change...

[Francko]

oracleslave, you appear to have beaten me on the spelling, but where's the grammar smiley?

"Exceptions don't make the rule."

It's not a case of exceptions, but presumptions.

I'd be the first to admit that the general level of second language skills amongst most native English speakers is not very good, verging at times on abysmal. On the other hand the presumption of many of our European friends that this is always the case, or that because of a few hours a week at school and perhaps watching the Simpsons, or listening to the odd song or two, their foreign language skills are better than their counterpart trying to speak their language is quite often far from true.

Perhaps if English speakers weren't so tolerant of mistakes such as shown above and did like a friend of mine here, answering "wat?", "wablieft?" or the equivalent, then such presumptions might change...

Sorry but I still don't get your point. First you are almost outbreaking into the ridicolous with these cheap tricks as I never double check what I write. You should check out my posts in the italian forum and you will spot just as many mistakes because I write first-hand and no, I can't care less if they are correct or not. And so do you.

Just to give an example from you:

Secondly, as for the suggestion that only years and years of training (or the benefit of that 'study' at school) makes it possible to achieve fluency in a language I will put forward two people I know personally. One my manager who learnt Dutch only in the last year or two and now uses it in all meetings/discussions with Dutch speakers, and secondly a Polish girl I met on a course who passed the Dutch (native speaker level) exams which allowed her to study at university within one year of arriving.

Besides, I claimed since that beginning that my level is not and will never be as a native speaker. Nor an exam can prove it as I have done the Cambridge certificate with very high marks. Also you should consider what languages are similar to your native one, I could master french, spanish and portuguese but certainly not english or german. I guess for a polish person, or a scandinavian, is easier to learn dutch or german and for an english person too. But yet you will never be as good as a native, despite all the exams you can pass. You can suffice with other skills for sure but for the language you will always be one step behind.

p.s: and no, I didn't refer to presumptions but exactly to exceptions. Surely there will be the odd case of someone with a great attitude to learn languages that will be as good as a native. But it's an exception.

p.p.s: xOracleSlave: I tend to make a lot of confusion these days as I am learning lithuanian and german at the same time besides the other three who are already on my head more or less. If I could concentrate on one language only like you do, I would be as good as you in spelling (or I might even be already if I could only pay some attention to what I write)

[Francko]

Perhaps if English speakers weren't so tolerant of mistakes such as shown above and did like a friend of mine here, answering "wat?", "wablieft?" or the equivalent, then such presumptions might change...

If you were not a native you'd be surprise of how little tolerancy there is against no-natives. I'd been in english communities in Italy for a long time and then went on the other end as a foreigner. I could have laughed all the time with the italish being spoken inside the community (a large part of them did not even consider the option of the language) but I never mocked anybody on that. Yet natives were very lenient and encouraging towards them. In England this does not happen. English is the language the whole world must know and speak as well as a native speaker, despite you'll never be one of them even after you live half a century there. And yes, watching TV, listening to music does help in any language. Also consider yourself lucky that, with the exception of Newcastle and few other areas, you don't have many issues with your own language. In many countries you already have to understand several dialects, which in some cases are just as difficult as another language.

[Joe Black]

Sorry but I still don't get your point...Just to give an example from you: 'study'

Maybe this will help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Irony

For the rest, I'll leave others to provide the critique...

[Francko]

Maybe this will help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Irony

For the rest, I'll leave others to provide the critique...

It's ok, I'll leave others to provide replies for me.

P.s. just to clarify: with studying, I didn't mean the two week course that you do in a dodgy school in Central London but studying it from the age of 10 as a second language until you are 18-19 just as I was forced to do with French too.

[Francko]

If you were not a native you'd be surprise of how little tolerancy there is against no-natives. I'd been in english communities in Italy for a long time and then went on the other end as a foreigner. I could have laughed all the time with the italish being spoken inside the community (a large part of them did not even consider the option of the language) but I never mocked anybody on that. Yet natives were very lenient and encouraging towards them. In England this does not happen. English is the language the whole world must know and speak as well as a native speaker, despite you'll never be one of them even after you live half a century there. And yes, watching TV, listening to music does help in any language. Also consider yourself lucky that, with the exception of Newcastle and few other areas, you don't have many issues with your own language. In many countries you already have to understand several dialects, which in some cases are just as difficult as another language.

Actually it gets even worse in Holland. That is probably the only country where the natives get annoyed if you try to speak their own language. A poor friend of mine was so frustrated, he tried to learn it for 2 years and he never got any chance of practicing it as they always replied in English to all his attempts of conversation.