On a serious note though, to suggest that we can torture people if we're absolutely sure they're terrorists is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. What are the criteria going to be for deciding?
- Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
- Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!
Ex-CIA agent: We used torture and it worked
Collapse
X
-
-
I agree (With RandyW? Is that allowed?)
If there is no doubt, convicted in a court of law etc.... I'd be quite happy if they were 'put out of their misery'.
But torture? To try and get 'evidence'?
No thanks.Comment
-
Actually, the more I read Board Game Geek's posts, the more annoyed I get. I abhor terrorism as much as the next man, but to suggest not bothering with a trial and just torturing and then executing people leaves me with two thoughts:
1) He's an even worse troll than me
or
2) He's an idiot. What next BGG? Are you busy polishing your jackboots?Comment
-
Originally posted by RandyW View PostHe's an even worse troll than meComment
-
Originally posted by BrilloPad View PostThe only worse troll than you is Churchill. oh yes - you are churchillComment
-
Sorry if you think I'm trolling, I'm not.
I'm just trying to say, under certain situations, the use of any tool at our disposal should be sanctioned.
The terrorists do not burden themselves with what is right and wrong. They seek to accomplish an objective, unfettered by the rules of engagement.
The forces of law and order however, have to operate within certain parameters.
That immediately skews the odds in favour of the terrorist and creates an unbalanced playing field.
But hey, so long as people are happy with that, that's their choice.
They may as well be working with the terrorists in that case.Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C.S. LewisComment
-
Originally posted by Board Game Geek View PostSorry if you think I'm trolling, I'm not.
I'm just trying to say, under certain situations, the use of any tool at our disposal should be sanctioned.
Originally posted by Board Game Geek View PostThe terrorists do not burden themselves with what is right and wrong. They seek to accomplish an objective, unfettered by the rules of engagement.
The forces of law and order however, have to operate within certain parameters.
That immediately skews the odds in favour of the terrorist and creates an unbalanced playing field.
But hey, so long as people are happy with that, that's their choice.
They may as well be working with the terrorists in that case.
As for there not being a level playing field, I'm glad it isn't level. I wouldn't want to live in a country where the playing field was level - We start behaving like terrorists we become just as bad as they are and they have even more motivation to hate us.Comment
-
Are you saying that sometimes it's OK to torture people and other times it isn't?
Torture operates on many levels; physical, psychological, and to varying degrees ; subtle, mild, moderate, extreme, lethal.
I'm not advocating torture for personal sadistic pleasure. I haven't specified what level of torture either. So don't assume anything.
But there is a time and place for everything, in differing degrees. Don't write off torture without understanding the varying levels and applications.
Believe you me, if there was an easier way, then I'd be all for it.
My greatest hope is that one day, there will be a device that sits painlessly on a person's head, linked to a monitor. When asked a question such as "Where were you on the night of the 15th" and the subject answers "At me mum's", the subconcious blows the gaff and shows the suspect stabbing 89 year old Ethel in the Kitchen.
That would be completely painless and not involve torture but allow for rapid conviction and summary justice. Who could argue with that ? Suspects cannot lie anymore and you always get the truth.
But back to reality, yes, torture comes in varying degrees and with different levels of effect.
To be honest, "torture" is such a medieval term, (when it usually was a barbaric and lethal process).
I think the term "cooerced cooperation" is more acceptable, as it covers the gamut of techniques, and doesn't necessarily mean "lethal or barbaric".
You're saying that because I don't agree with torturing then executing people without a trial as you advocate that I may as well be working with terrorists?
OFC, such a situation would never arise, because terrorists are not stupid. I just wanted to create an extreme case and see at what point people would say "Hmmm...ok..in that case I concede" or whether they were rigid and inflexible in their thinking. Rigid and inflexible will not defeat the fluid dynamics of terrorism.
As for there not being a level playing field, I'm glad it isn't level. I wouldn't want to live in a country where the playing field was level - We start behaving like terrorists we become just as bad as they are and they have even more motivation to hate us.
Wake up for pity's sake won't you ?
They hate us and all that we stand for with a burning passion. It is not possible for them to hate us even more, because they are at the apex of their hate. Do you not comprehend the sort of people who we are dealing with here ? Do you live in La-La land ? Does everything look pink in your world through your rose-coloured spectacles ?
I wish I lived in your world. I really do.
But we are not in Kansas anymore, Toto, and our way of life is under threat. It's too late to finger point and find out who started it. The decision is clear. We either protect our life, or we do not. We either meet force with force, or we do not. We either continue to exist, or we do not.
Laws that are inviolate do not support a populace.
They paralyse and strangle it.Last edited by Board Game Geek; 12 December 2007, 22:33.Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C.S. LewisComment
-
Originally posted by Board Game Geek View PostYes.
Torture operates on many levels; physical, psychological, and to varying degrees ; subtle, mild, moderate, extreme, lethal.
I'm not advocating torture for personal sadistic pleasure. I haven't specified what level of torture either. So don't assume anything.
But there is a time and place for everything, in differing degrees. Don't write off torture without understanding the varying levels and applications.
Believe you me, if there was an easier way, then I'd be all for it.
My greatest hope is that one day, there will be a device that sits painlessly on a person's head, linked to a monitor. When asked a question such as "Where were you on the night of the 15th" and the subject answers "At me mum's", the subconcious blows the gaff and shows the suspect stabbing 89 year old Ethel in the Kitchen.
That would be completely painless and not involve torture but allow for rapid conviction and summary justice. Who could argue with that ? Suspects cannot lie anymore and you always get the truth.
But back to reality, yes, torture comes in varying degrees and with different levels of effect.
To be honest, "torture" is such a medieval term, (when it usually was a barbaric and lethal process).
I think the term "cooerced cooperation" is more acceptable, as it covers the gamut of techniques, and doesn't necessarily mean "lethal or barbaric".
I was talking in the case of Terrorist Bob were it is pointless having a trial, since there is undeniable proof from CCTV, the media, and even Terrorist Bob says on TV "Yeah, it was me, he he".
OFC, such a situation would never arise, because terrorists are not stupid. I just wanted to create an extreme case and see at what point people would say "Hmmm...ok..in that case I concede" or whether they were rigid and inflexible in their thinking. Rigid and inflexible will not defeat the fluid dynamics of terrorism.
You seem to labour under the misapprehension that if we were to meet their force with equal or greater force of our own, then they would hate us even more ?
Wake up for pity's sake won't you ?
They hate us and all that we stand for with a burning passion. It is not possible for them to hate us even more, because they are at the apex of their hate. Do you not comprehend the sort of people who we are dealing with here ? Do you live in La-La land ? Does everything look pink in your world through your rose-coloured spectacles ?
I wish I lived in your world. I really do.
But we are not in Kansas anymore, Toto, and our way of life is under threat. It's too late to finger point and find out who started it. The decision is clear. We either protect our life, or we do not. We either meet force with force, or we do not. We either continue to exist, or we do not.
Laws that are inviolate do not support a populace.
They paralyse and strangle it.Comment
-
Ask no questions hear no lies. they know what you want, not what you want to hear.
ask no questions. when they start to talk, leave the room and ignore them, start again later.
same again.
and again.
and again
and again.
Then don't touch them, just sit and listen. they will tell you everything, and they will tell you the truth.
Extraction 101
Should be used as a matter of course, on Drug dealers, Pedophiles & Terrorists
Just for the hell of itConfusion is a natural state of beingComment
- Home
- News & Features
- First Timers
- IR35 / S660 / BN66
- Employee Benefit Trusts
- Agency Workers Regulations
- MSC Legislation
- Limited Companies
- Dividends
- Umbrella Company
- VAT / Flat Rate VAT
- Job News & Guides
- Money News & Guides
- Guide to Contracts
- Successful Contracting
- Contracting Overseas
- Contractor Calculators
- MVL
- Contractor Expenses
Advertisers
Contractor Services
CUK News
- Streamline Your Retirement with iSIPP: A Solution for Contractor Pensions Sep 1 09:13
- Making the most of pension lump sums: overview for contractors Sep 1 08:36
- Umbrella company tribunal cases are opening up; are your wages subject to unlawful deductions, too? Aug 31 08:38
- Contractors, relabelling 'labour' as 'services' to appear 'fully contracted out' won't dupe IR35 inspectors Aug 31 08:30
- How often does HMRC check tax returns? Aug 30 08:27
- Work-life balance as an IT contractor: 5 top tips from a tech recruiter Aug 30 08:20
- Autumn Statement 2023 tipped to prioritise mental health, in a boost for UK workplaces Aug 29 08:33
- Final reminder for contractors to respond to the umbrella consultation (closing today) Aug 29 08:09
- Top 5 most in demand cyber security contract roles Aug 25 08:38
- Changes to the right to request flexible working are incoming, but how will contractors be affected? Aug 24 08:25
Comment