The worst thing about my work is...

[Cowboy Bob]

the unskilled 'managers'

Managers working in IT who can barely turn on their PCs. Useless tw@ts. Attempting to manage people who they can't even talk to as their eyes glaze over as soon as the techies try and tell the something important - like why their latest brainstorm isn't feasible.

I firmly believe that unless you have a background in some sort of technical area (no matter how old or obsolete), you should feck off out of IT.

[daviejones]

Managers working in IT who can barely turn on their PCs. Useless tw@ts. Attempting to manage people who they can't even talk to as their eyes glaze over as soon as the techies try and tell the something important - like why their latest brainstorm isn't feasible.

I firmly believe that unless you have a background in some sort of technical area (no matter how old or obsolete), you should feck off out of IT.

Well you are obviously way too clever and far more experienced than everyone else in your office.....NOT!!

So are you saying all managers in IT are "useless tw@ts"?

I can say the same about engineers that get into IT because they played with their home PC, did an MCSE bootcamp and then thought they were the dogs nuts!!! Useless tw@ts!!!Maybe you are as your name suggests...a cowboy!!

[Francko]

Well you are obviously way too clever and far more experienced than everyone else in your office.....NOT!!

So are you saying all managers in IT are "useless tw@ts"?

I can say the same about engineers that get into IT because they played with their home PC, did an MCSE bootcamp and then thought they were the dogs nuts!!! Useless tw@ts!!!Maybe you are as your name suggests...a cowboy!!

Davie, you have a tendency to go balistic once you are into an argument. Well I understand you as I do the same.

However, it used to be the times of IT cowboys in the late nineties but not any longer. People who could charge 100 quid an hour for doing html pages and most of the admin people were just able to turn on PC. But now it's all different. You need proper industry and academic qualification to secure a job as an IT specialist. I am afraid I have to agree with cowboy bob that now it's the time for cowboy managers. And believe me it's not for sympathy of roles but it's a plain observation that due to skill shortage there is a much higher percentage now of unskilled managers rather than unskilled techies. Most of them just have a 3 day study certification in ITIL or prince2 and a big mouth, and that can secure you a good job in IT management. A pity for the good ones but you can't deny the current situation that most of us face everyday.

[daviejones]

Davie, you have a tendency to go balistic once you are into an argument. Well I understand you as I do the same.

However, it used to be the times of IT cowboys in the late nineties but not any longer. People who could charge 100 quid an hour for doing html pages and most of the admin people were just able to turn on PC. But now it's all different. You need proper industry and academic qualification to secure a job as an IT specialist. I am afraid I have to agree with cowboy bob that now it's the time for cowboy managers. And believe me it's not for sympathy of roles but it's a plain observation that due to skill shortage there is a much higher percentage now of unskilled managers rather than unskilled techies. Most of them just have a 3 day study certification in ITIL or prince2 and a big mouth, and that can secure you a good job in IT management. A pity for the good ones but you can't deny the current situation that most of us face everyday.

You will always have bad managers, as you will always have cr@p engineers but that is life. Comments that generalise p*ss me off though as I know some very good managers and I like to think I am also a good Technical Manager.

Cowboy made a comment that unless you have a background in some kind of tech area you should get out of IT....I would have to put this down as a stupid comment.

[Francko]

You will always have bad managers, as you will always have cr@p engineers but that is life. Comments that generalise p*ss me off though as I know some very good managers and I like to think I am also a good Technical Manager.

Cowboy made a comment that unless you have a background in some kind of tech area you should get out of IT....I would have to put this down as a stupid comment.

Well, to be fair I do honestly agree that it's too much of a specialist sector to manage that if you don't have specific experience you wouldn't be able to be good at managing it, perhaps at a very strategic high level but at a lower level you will need to speak to many techies and understand them, or otherwise need to be coupled with someone with the right skills all the time and fully trust this person. I don't think it's such an unreasonable request. As a matter of fact in most of the scientific fields managers are supposed to have proper experience in the industry or else they won't be allowed to manage anything. Look at the NHS, do you really believe that managers are capable of understanding all the implications of budget cuts, emergency plans and so on. Or is it a recipe for disaster?

PS of course, you will always have bad managers and bad techies. But unfortunately now it's the time of large abundance of bad managers while in the 90s it was the time when there were many bad techies.

[daviejones]

Well, to be fair I do honestly agree that it's too much of a specialist sector to manage that if you don't have specific experience you wouldn't be able to be good at managing it, perhaps at a very strategic high level but at a lower level you will need to speak to many techies and understand them, or otherwise need to be coupled with someone with the right skills all the time and fully trust this person. I don't think it's such an unreasonable request. As a matter of fact in most of the scientific fields managers are supposed to have proper experience in the industry or else they won't be allowed to manage anything. Look at the NHS, do you really believe that managers are capable of understanding all the implications of budget cuts, emergency plans and so on. Or is it a recipe for disaster?

Budget cuts are a financial concern that are out of the sphere of understanding of non financial managers. Each area has a role to play. The finacial controller in a company is an accountant, although he manages the budget for IT, he relies on IT input. So are we saying that he should not deal with IT budget because he doesn't have an MCSE?

I manage developers but am not a programmer, I also manage engineers and do not have an MCSE. I also manage managers but do not have a degree, should I get out of IT?

While I see your point in parts, I think you are generalising a little.

[Francko]

Budget cuts are a financial concern that are out of the sphere of understanding of non financial managers. Each area has a role to play. The finacial controller in a company is an accountant, although he manages the budget for IT, he relies on IT input. So are we saying that he should not deal with IT budget because he doesn't have an MCSE?

I manage developers but am not a programmer, I also manage engineers and do not have an MCSE. I also manage managers but do not have a degree, should I get out of IT?

While I see your point in parts, I think you are generalising a little.

No, I didn't say you need to be a programmer or need to know the latest languages and frameworks. But understand the lifecycle of IT is an important part of project management. Of course the accountant does a specialist job so does not need to know the system. But the decision whether to go for .net or for j2ee needs manager who understand the major issues and that are able to discuss with techies without bringing a dictionary with them all the time. And regarding degree i didn't say it's necessary, experience can make it redundant.

[Cowboy Bob]

Well you are obviously way too clever and far more experienced than everyone else in your office.....NOT!!

So are you saying all managers in IT are "useless tw@ts"?

I can say the same about engineers that get into IT because they played with their home PC, did an MCSE bootcamp and then thought they were the dogs nuts!!! Useless tw@ts!!!Maybe you are as your name suggests...a cowboy!!

Protesting too much?

[daviejones]

Protesting too much?

Perhaps you are...but I am no poet!!

[cojak]

You're not a dispassionate debater either, are you?

I'll bet your engineers get you to bite regularly...

Don't take it all so seriously, davie boy...