The worst thing about my work is...

[daviejones]

The problem is that the people who design these processes do not have actually any clue about the process and they don't even bother asking the people who are involved with the process, and even if they asked most of them are still unable to understand the complexity of the issues. I think Lucy is right, too many useless managers who do not have the right experience nor knowledge.

Ah...you have a very limited knowledge of process design I see.

Too many useless managers? Or is it too many cowboy developers? It is a known fact that as I have stated, most incidents are caused by unauthorised changes (by engineers and support bods) and poorly planned changes (again by engineers etc). I used to be an engineer so know both sides of the coin.

Cavalier engineers and devlopers, mixed with an overly complicated process is not going to help however.

One thing I have noted about this thread is the generalisation. Not all managers are clueless. That is like saying all developpers are hippy, sunshine avoiding Star Trek fanatics that speak in mumbo jumbo!!!

[sasguru]

Ah...you have a very limited knowledge of process design I see.

!!!

He has a very limited knowledge of most things, including himself.
Code monkey with delusions of grandeur.

[Francko]

Ah...you have a very limited knowledge of process design I see.

Too many useless managers? Or is it too many cowboy developers? It is a known fact that as I have stated, most incidents are caused by unauthorised changes (by engineers and support bods) and poorly planned changes (again by engineers etc). I used to be an engineer so know both sides of the coin.

Cavalier engineers and devlopers, mixed with an overly complicated process is not going to help however.

One thing I have noted about this thread is the generalisation. Not all managers are clueless. That is like saying all developpers are hippy, sunshine avoiding Star Trek fanatics that speak in mumbo jumbo!!!

Also many cowboy developers. But the problem is that the useless manager has the task of designing the process and he/she should consult with the cowboy developers/engineers and be able to understand their mambo-jumbo to convert it to plain english. It's good that you have been on both sides so you are able to approach them and discuss with them. So many others are unable to do that, sorry. It is not a generalisation, it is the unfortunate reality of many IT companies.

[Lucy]

Ah...you have a very limited knowledge of process design I see.

Too many useless managers? Or is it too many cowboy developers? It is a known fact that as I have stated, most incidents are caused by unauthorised changes (by engineers and support bods) and poorly planned changes (again by engineers etc). I used to be an engineer so know both sides of the coin.

Cavalier engineers and devlopers, mixed with an overly complicated process is not going to help however.

One thing I have noted about this thread is the generalisation. Not all managers are clueless. That is like saying all developpers are hippy, sunshine avoiding Star Trek fanatics that speak in mumbo jumbo!!!

To be fair, I don't think anyone has said all managers are useless, I said there were 'useless managers'. BTW the bit about developers is true.

[sasguru]

Also many cowboy developers. But the problem is that the useless manager has the task of designing the process and he/she should consult with the cowboy developers/engineers and be able to understand their mambo-jumbo to convert it to plain english. It's good that you have been on both sides so you are able to approach them and discuss with them. So many others are unable to do that, sorry. It is not a generalisation, it is the unfortunate reality of many IT companies.

I refer to my previous post.

[daviejones]

Also many cowboy developers. But the problem is that the useless manager has the task of designing the process and he/she should consult with the cowboy developers/engineers and be able to understand their mambo-jumbo to convert it to plain english. It's good that you have been on both sides so you are able to approach them and discuss with them. So many others are unable to do that, sorry. It is not a generalisation, it is the unfortunate reality of many IT companies.

The thing is though, I cannot see how you can design a process without:

A - Understanding the business and the business drivers
B - Understanding the need for the process
C - Understanding and speaking to the people involved in the process

It does sound like there are some cowboys out there!!!!

[sasguru]

It does sound like there are some cowboys out there!!!!

Long may there be. Those of us who know what we are doing develop a reputation and can name our price

[Francko]

Code monkey with delusions of grandeur.

Now, now, who is the one who believes to be a grandeur....

[sasguru]

Now, now, who is the one who believes to be a grandeur....

That's why I get paid the big bucks

[Francko]

The thing is though, I cannot see how you can design a process without:

A - Understanding the business and the business drivers
B - Understanding the need for the process
C - Understanding and speaking to the people involved in the process

It does sound like there are some cowboys out there!!!!

When you have somebody totally unskilled like sasguru, who does not have any technical nor business skills (and no being able to spring buzzwords is not a business skill) nor communication nor listening skills, in charge of this process, the design can only come up as wrong, unnecessarily complicated and incomplete. And no point in blaming cowboy developers or engineers. It should all have been designed properly from the root.