5 "Britons" held in Guantanamo

[Old Greg]

It's pretty simple really. If the Americans have evidence against Jamil El-Banna, they should charge him and try him and if he's guilty punish him. If the Spanish have evidence against him, they can apply for extradition and that can be looked at in the normal way and if appropriate he can be extradited and given a fair trial and if guilty convicted and punished. That is the rule of law. The rule of law either applies to everyone or it is not the rule of law. If that has somehow become in other people's minds some liberal middle class conscience hand-wringing Guardian-reading lentil-eating PC aberration, then they are way off the spectrum of normal civilised standards.

[The Lone Gunman]

It's pretty simple really. If the Americans have evidence against Jamil El-Banna, they should charge him and try him and if he's guilty punish him. If the Spanish have evidence against him, they can apply for extradition and that can be looked at in the normal way and if appropriate he can be extradited and given a fair trial and if guilty convicted and punished. That is the rule of law. The rule of law either applies to everyone or it is not the rule of law. If that has somehow become in other people's minds some liberal middle class conscience hand-wringing Guardian-reading lentil-eating PC aberration, then they are way off the spectrum of normal civilised standards.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on that OG. I believe the same is true for all inmates, even those who can be proven to be terrorist. Charge them or let them go.
What I disagree on is that it is in any way our (UK) responsibility.
If they are refugees they are stateless even if we have given them leave to remain. The resonsibility for these people should lie at the feet of the UN.

[Old Greg]

I agree with you wholeheartedly on that OG. I believe the same is true for all inmates, even those who can be proven to be terrorist. Charge them or let them go.
What I disagree on is that it is in any way our (UK) responsibility.
If they are refugees they are stateless even if we have given them leave to remain. The resonsibility for these people should lie at the feet of the UN.

The refugee status and responsibility is a tricky one. The question of legal obligation to represent is probably legally contentious, so it comes down to a personal judgement on moral responsibility. It's not that the refugees have nothing to do with Britain - Britain has offered them shelter against oppression abroad, and (in the case of Jamil El-Banna) it is (IMO) entirely reasonable that Britain should offer some assistance to him when he is kidnapped in Gambia on a buisness trip.

I understand that some like you, TLG, may feel differently, which is fair enough. What bugs me is the armchair thugs for whom refugee status is neither here nor there, cos the Americans wouldn't have taken him if he'd done nothing wrong, so why bother with evidence or a trial. That is another step on the road to tyranny.

[Rantor]

The refugee status and responsibility is a tricky one. The question of legal obligation to represent is probably legally contentious, so it comes down to a personal judgement on moral responsibility. It's not that the refugees have nothing to do with Britain - Britain has offered them shelter against oppression abroad, and (in the case of Jamil El-Banna) it is (IMO) entirely reasonable that Britain should offer some assistance to him when he is kidnapped in Gambia on a buisness trip.

I understand that some like you, TLG, may feel differently, which is fair enough. What bugs me is the armchair thugs for whom refugee status is neither here nor there, cos the Americans wouldn't have taken him if he'd done nothing wrong, so why bother with evidence or a trial. That is another step on the road to tyranny.

I think the 1951 convention passes on the UN's duties to States to offer protection via the refugee document. There is some intersting, though outdated, stuff on here

Armchair thugs, pah - just you wait to they start quoting Gaunty back at you

[Old Greg]

I think the 1951 convention passes on the UN's duties to States to offer protection via the refugee document. There is some intersting, though outdated, stuff on here

Armchair thugs, pah - just you wait to they start quoting Gaunty back at you

Who Gaunty?

[Clippy]

I have faith in the ability of the American intelligence services not to pick out random Muslims. I'm sure they didn't just draw his name from a hat. But I also accept that in a war situation, there are also innocent casualties, although saying that it's better to be vigilant rather than not acting on intelligence.

Right, right.

Like the time after 9/11 when they published the names and photos of all the hijackers.

Some of the named were still very much alive

I guess that makes you dumber than the yanks.

[Rantor]

Who Gaunty?

Talk Radio/Sun Columnist - makes Littlejohn look like Gandhi.

[Old Greg]

Talk Radio/Sun Columnist - makes Littlejohn look like Gandhi.

Ah - inadequacy issues?

[Not So Wise]

I have faith in the ability of the American intelligence services not to pick out random Muslims.

There is the key difference in views between those who say these should freed and those who do not

I have had little trust in the American (or any countries) intelligence services for years (9/11, London bombing, Iraq WMD so forth) and now after the extreme politicizing of the American services I have less than zero faith

If after all these years the Americans have come up with zero evidence of any type against any of the people in gitmo then all should be released...with full rights to sue the pants off the yanks

You cannot claim to be a country (or individual) that represents or believes in freedom, rule of law or anything else like that if you have a facility like gitmo or support others that do

[xoggoth]

If there is zero evidence yes, but you cannot just assume that because Gitmo was unjust generally due to lack of proper reviews that every case is therefore baseless. The evidence for each case should be properly assessed by the British authorities before any decision on resumed residence is made.