British Jews

[Causus Deli]

Daily Mail has form going back a long way. From early 20th century (1905 ish?) Jewish immigration to support for Moseley's British Union of Fascists in the '30s ('Hurrah for the Blackshirts' is the quoted headline but I don't know whether that's an urban myth or not). I don't know of anything post-war, but I don't know whether they've apologised either.

Yes they even dragged out this stuff from 70 years ago, boy were they desperate to shift the attention off of the real culprits. They even stated the vast majority were Muslim in origin but still needed deflections to Hitler et al. Take a look at the areas around Paris for examples of how it might be if we don't rein them in.

[Pondlife]

Take a look at the areas around Paris for examples of how it might be if we don't rein them in.

It was this 'rein them in' attitude that sparked the riots in the 1st place. The area was a ghetto, with police systematically harassing north african youths ending with a group of boys getting killed (although not directly at the hands of the police). This was tha catalyst that set it off.

It was not an Islamic issue although a number of north africans in the area are muslim. It was about persecution of people living in a hell hole.

[DodgyAgent]

I'm a bit confused there dodgy. Are you unloading all this tuff on me - i.e. saying that this is my position, e.g.: supporting Hamas, questioning Israel's right to exist. Because they're not my position. My point was that my anti-zionism (whatever you may think of it) does not make me an anti-semite.

I accept that. However it was too good an opportunity to miss. The liberal left love hating Israel for the reasons that I have outlined. I am merely suggesting that your Causus Deliesque "anti zionism" may be driven by guilt rather than as an objective view of a particular religion("oh and I am anti zionist by the way so I am one of you").

I like to think that I am like you in that I will judge a religion on how it is interpreted by individuals, and right now, and although this is distinctly non PC or fashionable, it is Islam that seems to be at the root of the worlds problem not zionism.

[Old Greg]

I accept that. However it was too good an opportunity to miss. The liberal left love hating Israel for the reasons that I have outlined. I am merely suggesting that your Causus Deliesque "anti zionism" may be driven by guilt rather than as an objective view of a particular religion("oh and I am anti zionist by the way so I am one of you").

I like to think that I am like you in that I will judge a religion on how it is interpreted by individuals, and right now, and although this is distinctly non PC or fashionable, it is Islam that seems to be at the root of the worlds problem not zionism.

I'm sorry to say, I think you're confused, mate. Anti-zionism is not being against the Jewish people or the Jewish religion (I'm against either). It's being against the political view that the Jewish people can re-adopt a homeland their cultural ancestors were thrown out of 1800 odd years previously, never mind who's mad it their home in the meantime. It usually also takes a critical view of:

Illegal Israeli occupation of other lands
Illegal Israeli settlement of illegally occupied lands

The anti-semitism charge p1sses me off because it's an attempt to shut down criticism and debate. Having said that, there are some genuine anti-semites who use anti-zionism as a cover.

[Chico]

Don't know about agnostics and atheists. Ther are voices calling for a Reformation in Islam, but they have to speak carefully in many of these countries.

Not sure you understand what happened in the Reformation. The Reformation was about return to biblical beliefs not the heresy being practised by the then "church".

I suggest you look at your history

If you are calling on Islam to go through a Reformation of its own then you are essentially calling from establishment of a cailphate, jihad etc

[The Lone Gunman]

Not sure you understand what happened in the Reformation. The Reformation was about return to biblical beliefs not the heresy being practised by the then "church".

I suggest you look at your history

If you are calling on Islam to go through a Reformation of its own then you are essentially calling from establishment of a cailphate, jihad etc

Chicken love, where have you been? I missed you!

[Old Greg]

Not sure you understand what happened in the Reformation. The Reformation was about return to biblical beliefs not the heresy being practised by the then "church".

I suggest you look at your history

If you are calling on Islam to go through a Reformation of its own then you are essentially calling from establishment of a cailphate, jihad etc

I do understand what happened in the Protestant Reformation and I didn't suggest that voices in Islam were calling for the Protestant Reformation, but a Reformation. It can take many forms and will relate to what the perceived problems in a religion are. Look at the Reformed Jewish synagogues. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

I'm not calling on Islam to do anything - others within Islam are.

[DodgyAgent]

I'm sorry to say, I think you're confused, mate. Anti-zionism is not being against the Jewish people or the Jewish religion (I'm against either). It's being against the political view that the Jewish people can re-adopt a homeland their cultural ancestors were thrown out of 1800 odd years previously, never mind who's mad it their home in the meantime. It usually also takes a critical view of:

Illegal Israeli occupation of other lands
Illegal Israeli settlement of illegally occupied lands

The anti-semitism charge p1sses me off because it's an attempt to shut down criticism and debate. Having said that, there are some genuine anti-semites who use anti-zionism as a cover.

I am not confused at all, I never suggested that you were against the Jewish people at all. Of course a central tenet to anti Israelism (or zionism) is that they illegally occupy their own country. Well I am interested in how you set their right to their nation apart from every other countries (including our own) right to their nation.

[Chico]

Chicken love, where have you been? I missed you!

I now spend a lot of time in airports and planes so my posting quota has invariably declined......

[Chico]

I am not confused at all, I never suggested that you were against the Jewish people at all. Of course a central tenet to anti Israelism (or zionism) is that they illegally occupy their own country. Well I am interested in how you set their right to their nation apart from every other countries (including our own) right to their nation.

We are know that the Jewish people are hated simply because they are Jews. They are different aand not afraid to worship, dress, behave as they choose and that is what the pinko self styled tree huggers detest. Anyone who is not scared to be diffrent, who does not apologise for who they are and what they belive is seen as a threat. If only King Saul had wiped out the Amalekites as he had told to do.....we would not have had Hitler, Ahmadinejad, Haman etc etc..