Glasgow Bombers...

[Burdock]

What I want them to do is be up in arms about stuff! I want to see them on Sky news every time I turn it on, or in papers, shouting and balling, and saying how appauled they are, and blasting anyone in their community who ever has anything to do with this kind of extremism.
I want to see hatred in their eyes for these people!

I've often thought the same, Sal.

I think the problem is that many of them share the same anger as the extremists (caused by our foreign policy). Thankfully for us, most of them aren't suicidally pi55ed off.

[The Lone Gunman]

Not terribly bright, are ye?

Whats up? Greg not responded to the PM yet?

When you can actualy string an argument together instead of repeating someone elses mantra or just being plain rude then maybe, just maybe I might listen to you.

[Old Greg]

I agree with your final point, though I do have a couple of problems with it.
Iraq: Why do Muslims use Iraq as an excuse? Saddam was opresive to Muslims and freely murdered them. Only Al Quaeda stood against him.
The invasion has allowed Muslims in Iraq to practice their faith so Muslims should be supporting the allies who are fighting on their side.

Palastine: This is clearly an issue. Isreal is only able to stand due to the support of the West. Isreal is oppressive (almost to the point of Nazism) to the Palastinians. I can understand the feelings here. What I don't understand is that there has been more and more popular support throughout the people of the Western world for the plight of the Palastinians.
More and more pressure was coming to bare on Isreal due to pressure on Western leaders from their citizens.
Islamic terrorism and in fighting in Gaza has done untold harm to the cause.

Islam: I do not believe Islam is compatible with a Western way of life. I have my reasons, but it would take to long to explain here.

I am usualy tolerant and want to live in a state where peoples choices are catered for, but more and more I am becoming hardened to the fact that maybe we need to do something radical otherwise we will be the ones who suffer.

I do not want a right wing government. The problem is that the other parties are so determined not to offend anyone that they will not make a stand. If no political party is willing to confront the issue then people (like me) will vote BNP.

BNP: I do not believe that the BNP are as bad as you and others paint them. Yes they have more than their fare share of idiots but to become powerful they will need more popular support. They will change with that support.

Iraq - yes it's a bit of a conundrum as we all know what kind of sh1t Saddam was, but we have to try to understand it.

The troops they see on the streets are prinicpally American. The Iraqis and others know the history of American (and British) influence and interference: Israel/Palestine, arming Saddam, overthrowing the democratic government in Iran and replacing it with the Shah etc. etc. etc. Now, we can approach things logically and say that US invasion is better (or worse) than Saddam but there psychologically, they see foreign (and non-Muslim) troops on their street. They see pictures of Guantanamo, Abu Gharib - they hear George Bush's words about a crusade (not a good word in that part of the world - bit like Jihad sounds here only worse, I reckon) and how God told him to do it. Put yourself in their shoes, and see how their resentment about Iraq builds up. To repeat, I don't think this excuses blowing up your car in Glasgow airport - it does help us start to understand where it's coming from. And our options are to deal with where it's coming from or embark on the President's crusade. Or just keep getting bombed.

BTW - I don't agree that only Al Qaeda stood up to Saddam - the Kurds did their best.

Islam has many forms - when I spent a little time in Malaysia, they seemd to meld Islam with religious tolerance and Western lifestyle pretty well (although it ain't perfect like everywhere else).

I don't have time for any political parties and I won't bore anyone again with a load of quotes from BNP leaders, unless anyone particularly want me to. But I don't think they give a damn about Muslims - Griffin was quite happy to visit Libya in 1988 to seek funding from Gadaffi at a time when Gadaffi was funding the IRA. It's just an opportunity to them - it's no coincidence that the people (BNP) who shout loudest about the dangers of Islam are the ones who expresed the nastiest views about Jews, insert any ethnic group you fancy, a few years back.

They will change with more support, but from their current suits and boots image back to their violent roots - that's all they want. You sound like you might vote for them out of despair, which is where I think a lot of their votes come from. But to me this equates to:

Something radical must be done
This is something radical
This must be done.

[Let-Me-In]

I've often thought the same, Sal.

I think the problem is that many of them share the same anger as the extremists (caused by our foreign policy). Thankfully for us, most of them aren't suicidally pi55ed off.

But if they are so pissed off with our policies, why do they not just leave? They are free to go to any other country or back to their country of origin...it is a basic British right!!!

[sasguru]

Whats up? Greg not responded to the PM yet?

When you can actualy string an argument together instead of repeating someone elses mantra or just being plain rude then maybe, just maybe I might listen to you.

Greg and I are not a tag team, contrary to popular belief.
Your post was so full of holes that I couldn't be bothered to rebut it.

[The Lone Gunman]

Sal: I expect that a number of Muslims are caught in a religious paradox that stops them from decrying these people.

Muslims do not know if these people are genuine Jihadis or not. If they are then what they do in the name of Islam is blessed.

Whenever Muslim leaders speak out it is with very careful language.

They do not wish to become damned. Who can blame them as people of faith.

[Old Greg]

Greg and I are not a tag team, contrary to popular belief.
Your post was so full of holes that I couldn't be bothered to rebut it.

Get back to the Giant Alien Lizard Desk and do some work.

[shaunbhoy]

But if they are so pissed off with our policies, why do they not just leave? They are free to go to any other country or back to their country of origin...it is a basic British right!!!

They won't leave because the sort of country they wish for does not actually exist anywhere outside of their imaginations. Until this shangri-la does appear they will just stay here where they can safely peddle their prejudices safe in the knowledge that nothing too sinister will happen to them.

[Let-Me-In]

They won't leave because the sort of country they wish for does not actually exist anywhere outside of their imaginations. Until this shangri-la does appear they will just stay here where they can safely peddle their prejudices safe in the knowledge that nothing too sinister will happen to them.

That is why they are such a bunch of hypocrits.....

[SallyAnne]

And you don't think the media have something to do with this? After all what sells papers and air-time is the idea of "threats in our midst". Plus the govt. has it's own agenda.
The fact is compared with the other threats the country has faced, this is negligible.

Yes I do think the media have a lot to do with it...but they tend to just follow a story.
I'd like to see the Muslim community push their way in.

Hassan Butt (thanks Rantor - I did read that actually, brilliant bloke. Very refreshing to be at last getting some sort of insight), and people like him, need to start taking things to the papers (as he has done), to the TV, to the streets if necessary - so that they CAN get the limelight from the media. Muslims in this country need to start having a voice (and have needed a voice for a long time).
They need to show the rest of the country that in no uncertain terms they are disgusted with extremists.