BBC Have your Say - paedophiles

[The Lone Gunman]

I am assuming that the string em up brigade will be happier that children do not survive a paedo attack?

[WotNxt]

Firstly, I was not aware that not executing/maiming criminals was leading the country to fall apart.

Secondly, they are not just my morals. The fact that most of us don't get murdered by individuals or the state assures me of that.

You can capitalise all you want but you are not promoting anything to protect anybody's interest.

You do not seem to be able to tell the difference between justice and pandering to your all-consuming rage.

Taking your blinkers off man!

Crime is only under minimal control because people are so scared they now take lots of precautions - drive your kids to school anyone?

So how were your morals fitting with the whole Iraq business then? That must have REALLY upset you. State controlled murder anyone?

The capitalisation was merely to leave no doubt to the reader when discussing your views as opposed to mine.

You do not seem to be able to tell the difference between justice in the abstract sense and working justice in the real world. We may have the former but we certainly don't have the latter.

Wait until one of your kids is attacked and then see what you think.

[WotNxt]

I am assuming that the string em up brigade will be happier that children do not survive a paedo attack?

Errm, why? What strange logic are you employing to infer that?

[The Lone Gunman]

Errm, why? What strange logic are you employing to infer that?

Well known in all sorts of crime.
If a crime carries a death sentence then it is far more likely that the victim of said crime will be killed.

As the child would be the only witness then it is less likely that the paedo will be caught and hung if the victim is dead.
You can only hang them once you know.

[Rantor]

Taking your blinkers off man!

Crime is only under minimal control because people are so scared they now take lots of precautions - drive your kids to school anyone?

So how were your morals fitting with the whole Iraq business then? That must have REALLY upset you. State controlled murder anyone?

The capitalisation was merely to leave no doubt to the reader when discussing your views as opposed to mine.

You do not seem to be able to tell the difference between justice in the abstract sense and working justice in the real world. We may have the former but we certainly don't have the latter.

Wait until one of your kids is attacked and then see what you think.

I'm not going to bite on the Iraq one as it is not strictly related to the Criminal Justice System.

I will not be waiting for something bad to happen to my kid as that would be insane.

I guess we have opposite views on this. I simply refuse to believe that I inhabit a world where it is necessary, practical or right to mutilate and execute other humans beings.

I certainly do not want to give such powers to any state.

Maybe you should consider a hobby as a masked vigilante?

[Old Greg]

So non-rehabilitable criminals should be kept as a drain on society?

How much does it cost to keep one high-security prisoner in gaol for a year?

How many people earning the average wage need to pay tax for a year to pay for them?

Why SHOULD they?

I don't think we're going to convince each other on this one. I think the death penalty is murder, that's why I think we shouldn't have it. From that starting point, the cost of keeping people in prison is the price I elieve we pay not to be murderers.

[Old Greg]

So how were your morals fitting with the whole Iraq business then? That must have REALLY upset you. State controlled murder anyone?

I also see the invasion of Iraq as mass murder.

[angusglover]

I see the nuking of Iraq as mass murder......but we have to start somewhere...

[WotNxt]

I don't think we're going to convince each other on this one. I think the death penalty is murder, that's why I think we shouldn't have it. From that starting point, the cost of keeping people in prison is the price I elieve we pay not to be murderers.

So with the prison population at an all time high and with a higher percentage of people in prison than most European countries ... when does the cost of prison become too draining on society?

In my view there are simply not enough people in prison right now as many are let out too early, many are not given custodial sentences simply because the prisons are full and far too many never even get put in a courtroom let alone convicted. Oh ... unless they are pensioners who don't pay their council tax!

If all serious crimes (wooly term, I know!) resulted in convictions and sentences were served in full then I believe the prison population would be about 4 or 5 times what it is now, maybe more. Crime rates would plummet and we would all be much safer - but would the financial cost be too high? Of course this is only theoretical and even if it were not we would never achieve this as it would be too "embarassing" to have that high a prison population.

On the matter of finance though, how much do we pay for our armed forces and nuclear deterrent to keep ourselves "safe" from external dangers? Anyone know how this compares to the bill for prisons?

[Chugnut]

I don't think we're going to convince each other on this one. I think the death penalty is murder, that's why I think we shouldn't have it. From that starting point, the cost of keeping people in prison is the price I elieve we pay not to be murderers.

I wouldn't want to resort to the death penalty either but I think the reason so many people are keen on advocating it these days is that there does not seem to be a perception that any alternatives are working.

If anyone harmed my wife or child, I would like to think that provided they spend the rest of their life in prison, it would be enough for me, but in all honesty I suspect I'd want them snuffed. It's clearly a very emotive issue and that clouds the judgement.

I genuinely think people feel the balance is the problem and they're desparate to suggest anything since the country's being run into the ground. Law abiding, work-for-a-living people don't feel they have their needs catered for. If a burglar breaks into your house and gets a kicking off you for their trouble, the law should always be on your side. They should never be able to sue. Teachers & parents should be able to discipline kids (a clip round the ear when it's needed) without ramifications.

I don't think it'll ever happen though since we don't have any politicians with any backbone. Remember a few weeks back when John Howard ordered Australia's cricket team to pull out of Zimbabwe, calling Magabe a "grubby dictator"? Brilliant! Someone with a bit of spine. Getting someone like that in office would be a good start.