You're all going to hate me...

[SallyAnne]

So...lets say I'm speeding in my car with my kids in it...something loads of people do (far more than leaving their kids alone) and I crash the car and one of my kids dies...would you all be so forgiving of me? Would you say that I was suffering enough? Or would you say that I was reckless with the lives of my kids and deserve to be locked up?

I'm sick of hearing how fantastic the parents are...yes they are suffering and yes I really do feel for them...but there is only one person really suffering (at least i hope she is still able to suffer) and that is the poor little girl. As a parent you have a responsibility...my kids look at me and know I will keep them safe...and no, this isn't about wrapping them in cotton wool, but there is reasonable care and attention. If you take a risk with your child, then no matter how many others take the same risk I'm sorry but be prepared to suffer the consequences.

IF the parents are not involved in this in any way, then I take my hat of to the work they have been doing...I couldn't be that strong and fear I would have failed my child in comparison...but I'm not convinced.

Oh...and what if it had been some scrubber on a council estate who had left her baby sleeping to go and get some fags and there had been a fire...is there anyone on here that would be saying she has suffered enough? I very much doubt it...and yet I would understand her actions much more as her life would have been far tougher and her choices far less.

Oh bravo!!!

[cailin dana]

Yeah - well said!

[The Lone Gunman]

Vito: I have asked this before, but as you are so adamant.


I believe that as parents they assesed the situation as safe. I do not know exactly how far away they were or if they could see the apartment. I do believe that no parent would leave their child if they thought it was unsafe. I do believe they got it wrong.

My question is: Just how far away is far enough? As has already been pointed out (numorous times) children have been snatched from the same tent, the same room, the next room and from a few feet away.

There is a vast difference between leaving a child in what you think is a safe environment and abandoning that child or driving like the example which you gave (which BTW would involve breaking numorous laws).

[Vito]

I believe that as parents they assesed the situation as safe.

What are you basing your belief on? Do you know them? Have they said this? And if the scrubber goes down the shop for fags, maybe she believes it is safe, but you know you wouldn;t be so forgiving.

I do not know exactly how far away they were or if they could see the apartment.

No, they couldn't see the apartment...does this change your view or was it an irrelevant point?

I do believe that no parent would leave their child if they thought it was unsafe.

Thats like saying you believe no parent would abuse a child...that no parent would kill their child...just because you are a good parent who puts their kids before yourself, not all parents do.

I do believe they got it wrong.

People do make mistakes, I accept that, but the consequence for another human here might just be the loss of their life...a human in their care, completely dependant on them for protection. If a doctor makes a careless mistake that costs a life, do we just shrug our shoulders and say, hey, he made a mistake...or do we call for him to be struck off for neglegence? If a guy with a genuine drink problem (and like it or not, alcoholism is a genuine illness) knocks over your kid while drink driving...do you say, hey, its not his fault he has a problem and he's suffering enough with guilt now he's sober...he just made a mistake...or do you instead want to kill him?

My question is: Just how far away is far enough? As has already been pointed out (numorous times) children have been snatched from the same tent, the same room, the next room and from a few feet away.

And that is true...you cannot protect your kids from everything...but there are things you can't help...and there is being careless. If I crash my car with the kids in it but driving within the limits and perfectly sensible but a dog runs out in front of me and I make the wrong choice...no-one could blame me I'm sure. But if I'm speeding then as you've said, you would blame me because I am taking an unneccessary risk...as far as I am concerned, they took an unneccessary risk and when that turns bad, whilst I can sympathise, I'm afraid there should be consequences.

There is a vast difference between leaving a child in what you think is a safe environment and abandoning that child or driving like the example which you gave (which BTW would involve breaking numorous laws).

Sorry, what are the numerous laws...I can think of Speeding but thats it???

And lets simplify this...foreign country, strange place, leaving the kids where you can not see them or hear them...how the hell is that somewhere you think is safe?

I live in a 3 storey house and my suite is on the top floor with the kids bedrooms on the middle floor...but when they are with me at weekends, I sleep in the spare room on the middle floor...one so that I can hear if anyone breaks in and I can hopefully protect them...but just as importantly so I am there for them if they wake up (my daughter is 4 and although she stays here a lot, it is still a different environment to her normal)...

So basically I make the small sacrifice of sleeping in a small bed so I can be there for them...that is what being a parent is about. This isnt wrapping them in cotton wool...this is taking reasonable measures to protect them which is my duty.

You can defend these guys if you want, but your arguements don't stack up for me...sorry

[Lucifer Box]

Vito speaks wisely.

[Lucifer Box]

The horror! Oh the horror!

Has young Damien reached the tricycle & goldfish bowl stage yet?

Funnily enough, he had his first tricycle ride over the weekend. Mrs Lucifer seemed most concerned for some reason. There is a little Persephone on the way as well now so there could be some interesting, er, interaction coming up.

[rhubarb]

No, they couldn't see the apartment...does this change your view or was it an irrelevant point?

Looks like they could see the apartment

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007250393,00.html

[Troll]

I see the McCann roadshow is now touring Spain... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6703117.stm

[SallyAnne]

Looks like they could see the apartment

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007250393,00.html

That is stupidly far away in my book. And the only way they could have seen the kids in there is if they left the balcony door open so that they could go out on the patio and wave at them (oh, and also possibly climb over it and fall to their death, so thats even worse!!)...cause you cant see through glass on a sunny day at that distance.

[SallyAnne]

I see the McCann roadshow is now touring Spain... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6703117.stm

Yeah, they've got plans to spend the next month touring all over europe.

All without their twins no doubt.