Road pricing bill before Commons

[Vito]

Thats a bit harsh DA...Dang65 is just trying to justify his failure and inability to afford two cars...and as he is ruled by his missus, he isn't allowed to use the car...you really can't blame him for preaching about the joys of public transport, it is probably an arguement that he has spent many hours putting together to avoid being laughed at by all his mates (well, associates rather than mates I suspect)

I'm not for or against public transport, nor am I for or against cars...I have a finite amount of time on this earth and I will choose any transport that allows me to maximise my time...the only thing I will say for sure, is that I will always go for as much luxury as I can afford whichever form of transport I choose

[DodgyAgent]

Thats a bit harsh DA...Dang65 is just trying to justify his failure and inability to afford two cars...and as he is ruled by his missus, he isn't allowed to use the car...you really can't blame him for preaching about the joys of public transport, it is probably an arguement that he has spent many hours putting together to avoid being laughed at by all his mates (well, associates rather than mates I suspect)

I'm not for or against public transport, nor am I for or against cars...I have a finite amount of time on this earth and I will choose any transport that allows me to maximise my time...the only thing I will say for sure, is that I will always go for as much luxury as I can afford whichever form of transport I choose

A man after my own heart Vito. I have 6 cars but only three can be driven at once. By keeping three cars off the road at any one time I therefore feel no guilt. BTW if you need a good second hand motor I can do you a good "summer's coming, special" deal

[dang65]

I dunno what you're all getting so wound up about. Most people are cheerfully boasting that they can afford to drive everywhere. Unfortunately you're not paying enough for the privilege of clogging up the public roads and generally disturbing everyone else's peace, so you're going to get charged more for doing so. You've got plenty of cash, so just carry on driving.

[Hart-floot]

I dunno what you're all getting so wound up about. Most people are cheerfully boasting that they can afford to drive everywhere. Unfortunately you're not paying enough for the privilege of clogging up the public roads and generally disturbing everyone else's peace, so you're going to get charged more for doing so. You've got plenty of cash, so just carry on driving.

I agree with you mate. The polluter should pay and that includes me. Road pricing is inevitable now the technology is proven, get used to it

[The Lone Gunman]

I agree with you mate. The polluter should pay and that includes me. Road pricing is inevitable now the technology is proven, get used to it

Drivers already pay MORE than their share. If every penny paid by drivers were used to improve the transport system then there would not be a congestion problem. The congestion is due to a lack of investment by Govt. Why should motorists be penalised for Govt. incompetance?

If it realy is about congestion and obviously green issues then bus, train and plane tickets should also include the same taxes, particularly on over crowded commuter transport. They are part of the problem too.

[Ardesco]

I dunno what you're all getting so wound up about. Most people are cheerfully boasting that they can afford to drive everywhere. Unfortunately you're not paying enough for the privilege of clogging up the public roads and generally disturbing everyone else's peace, so you're going to get charged more for doing so. You've got plenty of cash, so just carry on driving.

I think you will find that most people are saying it is more economical and more conveniant to drive everywhere which is not the same thing. The solution is not to price people off the roads, but instead reduce the cost of public transport, provide better public transport, or inprove the infrastructure so that we have more roads and less congestion (traffic cops on motorways that actually deal with bad driving instead of just throwing speeding tickets about would be a good start).

The problem is that we all know that this new tax will not get spent on roads, infrastructure or public transport. It will instead get wasted on various pointless initiatives and/or MP's pay rises and will be more money lost to nothing

[BoredBloke]

"I agree with you mate. The polluter should pay and that includes me. Road pricing is inevitable now the technology is proven, get used to it "

In what way is it proven?

With road pricing, rather than the london CC, will I know the cost of my journey before setting off or hit with a bill after I have completed it? The driver needs to have the information as to the potential cost of their route before making the journey. Will I be provided with a cost per mile total for roads which I'm about to use, if I make a change to my planned route? What will happen to the 'cheap' roads? Will they fill up as people move away from the more expensive routes? What happens on roads when you are going the opposite way to the rush hour traffic? Will I still be hit with the same charge?

What happens if I disconnect/clone the system?

The way it works now is the simplest way of road pricing. At the moment there are supposed to be a couple of million untaxed/uninsured cars on our roads. At the very least these people have to pay the tax on petrol.

Road pricing it is not proven.

[BoredBloke]

Personally I think most of our problems are not to do with the roads, but are to do with the railways. We have some of the most expensive trains in the world. This puts more people and freight onto the roads.

Making this cheaper would have a dramatic effect. Unfortunately this isn't going to happen as the train network is running to capacity already. Peak time prices for the trains are high because there is a huge demand for them. What I can't understand is why more freight is not moved during the night on the network when there is little or no demand.

[threaded]

What I can't understand is why more freight is not moved during the night on the network when there is little or no demand.

Erm, at its simplest it's because the trains don't go where the freight needs to be...

The UK upgraded from MRPII to JIT a good few years ago, and trains just don't cut it anymore. Even the Coal Board, who used to be the cause of most freight (by weight), moved to a 'Negative Stocking' system and so trucks to shift coal about are more 'efficient'.

[dang65]

I think you will find that most people are saying it is more economical and more convenient to drive everywhere which is not the same thing.

How is it not the same thing? It may be more economical at the moment, but that is unacceptable and it's what's being addressed by the road pricing proposal. If people want to continue with the convenience then they have to pay, and they have to stop whingeing about having to pay. It's the price you pay for the damage you do.

The solution is not to price people off the roads, but instead reduce the cost of public transport, provide better public transport, or inprove the infrastructure so that we have more roads and less congestion (traffic cops on motorways that actually deal with bad driving instead of just throwing speeding tickets about would be a good start).

As I keep saying, the public transport system, although it can always be improved, is a lot better now than it's ever been before in this country. For regular commuters over a standard commuting route (say up to an hour on a tube, train or bus) a travelcard is a very good deal. Yeah, for people that suddenly decide they need to travel from Manchester to London the next day the price will be quite shocking - but that is not daily commuting, which is the main point of this discussion.

It's also really not viable to introduce special routes to cater for unusual journeys, like the one TonyEnglish was trying to do (though I maintain that that journey is viable if you could just be bothered with taking the time).

The problem is that we all know that this new tax will not get spent on roads, infrastructure or public transport. It will instead get wasted on various pointless initiatives and/or MP's pay rises and will be more money lost to nothing

Are taxes on alcohol spent on new drinking facilities? Are taxes on tobacco spent on cigarette lighter research? Probably not as a rule.

The proposed road charging [tax], it must be said once again, is a penalty for the damage you are doing by driving everywhere in your own personal vehicle. It's not a special ticket to have new roads built for you. Meanwhile, a lot of money clearly is being fed into public transport, probably by the companies which run the systems, but presumably with large subsidies from the taxpayer.