Professional Day

[rootsnall]

My opinion is that you stay to get the job done and that should equate to roughly 40 hours a week. How you split that up over the week is between you and your client to discuss.

But I disagree with some opinions that you just do the bare minimum required etc. Personally I want to impress the client to ensure a good working relationship and more future work/references/referals.

I've seen a lot of contractors over the years who turn up and do the exact hours etc. They are usually the first out of the door when the contracts are up for renewal. Unless they are undispensible of course (amazing how many think they are).

Couldn't have put it better myself, but much too balanced an opinion for this thread.

I think you have got to be very careful not to get dragged into over performing though, especially when you've been at one client for a long time and can get sucked into the permie culture. If you do extra work then take the extra money or toil asap. Once you are not needed you are out the door and quickly forgotten.

[Lockhouse]

so every day it takes you exactly the same amount of time to achieve your deliverables. funny that.

Nope. My deliverables normally take 3-6 months but I pace myself.

[TheRightStuff]

Nope. My deliverables normally take 3-6 months but I pace myself.

inefficient or slow?

[Vito]

My opinion is that you stay to get the job done and that should equate to roughly 40 hours a week. How you split that up over the week is between you and your client to discuss.

But I disagree with some opinions that you just do the bare minimum required etc. Personally I want to impress the client to ensure a good working relationship and more future work/references/referals.

I've seen a lot of contractors over the years who turn up and do the exact hours etc. They are usually the first out of the door when the contracts are up for renewal. Unless they are undispensible of course (amazing how many think they are).

You do what you are paid to do...my builder quotes me £1,000 to build a wall which he has estimated will take him about 3 days...if he finishes it in 2 days because he has worked his socks off then I won't turn to him and ask him to put up some shelves on the 3rd day will I?

I give an honest quote for honest work...if they want more they pay more...if they want less they pay less...I am by no means indispensible but having said that, I have so far been offered extensions at the end of every contract, and then extenstions on the end of every extension...so my clients are obviously happy with me.

[Vito]

Blimey, didn't expect this to be controversial.

I thought it would have been obvious, so I didn't write it - but I meant 8 hours a day on average. That's what I use as a basis for my estimates of "it'll take about 60 days to do this piece of work" or whatever, for the client.

The hours I actually work on any given day might be 4 and they might be 12; though I do always make sure there's a decent overlap with my client's office hours if I need to be communicating with anyone there.

Ok...so the answer to your question is 40 hours per week...

How dull is that??? We can't have threads on here that are that simple...how would we pass our day??? Ah...just realised...I will be out of here by 3 today if I stop posting on here!

More simple questions and one word answers please folks

[Zorba]

This thread is such a load of b*ll*cks.

Are you lot a bunch of permies or something?

You take a contract, you have deliverables, you meet them.

Who gives a toss if you stay late, have a long lunch or a fecking rapour with the cleaning staff?!

Hours are things for the permies to worry about, deliverables are what contractors should worry about.

Day 2 not smoking...

Whilst I agree with the principle of this, I have yet to see a real world case where it goes like:

Client: So, we want you to cut this code for this project.
Me: Hmm, ok, that will cost you (60 working days x £5/day) three hundred quid for the whole deliverable.
Client: Let's see... (that's 300/5 = 60 days to do it) ok, that should cover our project lifespan. Done.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying that permie managers aren't thinking that way - if they were, why would 3 month contracts be offered ever? Surely the duration of any contract should be up to the business that is quoting for the work to be done?

Apart from support, of course.

[Vito]

Whilst I agree with the principle of this, I have yet to see a real world case where it goes like:


I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying that permie managers aren't thinking that way

Apart from support, of course.

When I was a Permie recruiting contractors I used to always try and get them to do a fixed price contract...I don't understand IT so I always wanted a price for an end deliverable...this used to cost me a little more as there is a shared risk element ina fixed price contract...but that was always fine with me.

As an example...I was once quoted 80 days at £500 for a piece of work I wanted doing (I did a sense check with our IT bods who said it sounded about right)...so this worked out at £40k...so I asked the guy to give me a fixed price of £44k (I always added on 10%) which covered the risk he was taking by giving such an estimate...we agreed on the deal and he worked pretty much 15hr days 7 days per week and had it knocked on the head in about 6 weeks...in this sitaution we all won...I had paid £4k more than I needed to, but equally there would have been no guarantees of the work being complete in that time and also I got the end deliverable several weeks ahead of when I needed it done by...and he gave up his life for a few weeks but it meant he could then go to Oz for a couple of months...

It does of course depend on the kind of work you do and also how confident you are of your estimates (and how well defined a piece of work is)...but this is surely the way we would all prefer to work and you would never have to worry about paying for IR35 insurance again!

[oxtailsoup]

...we agreed on the deal and he worked pretty much 15hr days 7 days per week and had it knocked on the head in about 6 weeks...

Did he do any of this work off site by any chance? I think most of us would agree that if you quote 20 hours you could actually do it in half the time if your really wanted to!

I'm not knocking your methods, obviously it was a good deal for you too. But I bet it was a v v v good deal for him!

[oxtailsoup]

I bet he even smeared some of his girlfriends eye liner under his eyes each morning and told you he was up all night working!

[Vito]

Did he do any of this work off site by any chance? I think most of us would agree that if you quote 20 hours you could actually do it in half the time if your really wanted to!

I'm not knocking your methods, obviously it was a good deal for you too. But I bet it was a v v v good deal for him!

Absolutely I'm sure it was...thats the whole point...he'd have dragged it out if on a day rate so I'd have paid pretty much the same (and probably had to do a 3 month extension as he'd have created some problems to overcome I'm sure, so therefore paid a lot more) and had to wait much longer for it...

This way we both won...its what makes the world go round!

I did occassionally have people make a loss (inc. a major consultancy that lost about £1m on a fixed contract with me, muppets) though becuase they had either underestimated the task or overestimated their ability...but this was the exception rather than the norm.