The guardian supporting the B word?

[vetran]

More a comment on the current crisis not a B argument. TL;DR its not Brexit's fault the rot was in before then.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...opportunity-eu

There is no dispute that the UK has some serious economic problems – including a chronic trade deficit and a poor record for investment – but they predate the Brexit vote in 2016. Britain has not run a surplus on trade in goods since the early 1980s, and wages adjusted for inflation have barely grown since the global financial crisis of the late 2000s. Had the economy been firing on all cylinders in 2016, it seems unlikely more than 17 million people would have voted to leave the EU.

Britain is not the only country facing labour shortages. The German government said earlier this year it was cutting red tape to make it easier to recruit workers from Turkey, and its big industrial sector trade union, IG Metall, has put in a claim for an 8% increase. France reported 300,000 unfilled vacancies in its hospitality, with a similar picture in Spain. According to the Office for National Statistics, at the time of the 2016 referendum there were 2,335,000 people born in other EU countries employed in the UK. At the latest count, this total stood at 2,389,000. The number is down slightly on the peak of 2,508,000 in early 2020 but there has been no mass exodus of EU workers.

Obviously in the wail we could all ignore it, but in the Slaver?

[malvolio]

Loving the idea that the guardian is an unbiased view of the world while the Mail is a red top.

They both are utterly unreliable. The Grauniad is far too wedded to its Islington-esque leftie world these days to be trusted on anything and the Mail - especially the Online version which bears little resemblance to the paper itself - has always been a populist right wing tub thumper.

You want unbiased opinion, you don't have many choices these days, they are all biased to some extent, even the Thunderer.

All that said, that particular piece makes interesting reading.

[Gibbon]

You want unbiased opinion, you don't have many choices these days, they are all biased to some extent, even the Thunderer.

The closest I think I got was alternating between The Thunderer and The Independent when it was in print.

[vetran]

Loving the idea that the guardian is an unbiased view of the world while the Mail is a red top.

They both are utterly unreliable. The Grauniad is far too wedded to its Islington-esque leftie world these days to be trusted on anything and the Mail - especially the Online version which bears little resemblance to the paper itself - has always been a populist right wing tub thumper.

You want unbiased opinion, you don't have many choices these days, they are all biased to some extent, even the Thunderer.

All that said, that particular piece makes interesting reading.

That was both of the points I was making,

It was nice to see some respect for the facts behind our current situation from a paper that normally is pro remainer.