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Oh dear - wages go up and signing bonuses.

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    #21
    Originally posted by GJABS View Post

    I think that's right.

    One way you could make this "dream" come true is to identify the bone-idle shirkers from among Britain's population, and ship them out to third world countries with low land and accommodation costs. In some ways that would be a good idea. Make benefits conditional on moving out of the country to somewhere like the Philippines.

    i.e. just as you have ambitious people from third world countries like the Philippines coming to the UK to seek their fortunes and a better life, equally we should ship those of our own people who are moving in the other direction, out there in return.
    that part where you are wrong is that working and hard work in itself is a virtue.

    working for a purpose, that is to be desired but working for the work sakes of it and to make someone above you a lot of money well... is hypocritical.

    you have to create a balance between incentivising people to work and offering them the comfort and security of civilised society.
    if you've done what you were supposed to, went to school, spent your time learning and now you get a 60k job in london that barely affords you to pay your bills and you will NEVER afford to buy a place in London on that money.

    so you've worked hard and still work hard but still are 3 paychecks away from living on the street. where is the fairness here?

    btw the benefit system is not meant to be functional, it's just meant to give the impression to people that there is some security there while actually the people there have a game to push people off benefits and are incentivised to do so.
    and with the money paid you can barely afford to eat anywhere in the uk


    you folks have been brainwashed for too long that this society is fair and there is no way to improve it while it is getting worse day by day. lately it is through stagnant wages and 5% inflation...

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

      In work poverty?

      Thats not so bad money, if you dont waste it

      A couple earning 11ph (40 hours) plus overtime (say 10 hours) at 16ph (time and half) or 22ph (double rate).

      Could each earn £600+ a week, £31000 a year. £2000 a month take home. £4000 a month after tax between them.

      I know a couple (Indian Immigrants) making that kind of money working in a factory. For the last 20 years. Drive nice cars. They even bought some BTLs a few years ago as they had built up enough equity in the main home. He told me most of them at the Factory have BTLs (most of the Indians anyway).

      £4000 a month is almost what a contractor on £400 a day (100K a year) will make if inside caught IR35.
      Ah, so anyone who works less than 8o hours per week, it's their own fault?

      Shouldn't you move to Trumpland, where your idea of civilisation and society would warrant a volley of supportive shots?
      …Maybe we ain’t that young anymore

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post

        In work poverty?

        Thats not so bad money, if you dont waste it

        A couple earning 11ph (40 hours) plus overtime (say 10 hours) at 16ph (time and half) or 22ph (double rate).

        Could each earn £600+ a week, £31000 a year. £2000 a month take home. £4000 a month after tax between them.

        I know a couple (Indian Immigrants) making that kind of money working in a factory. For the last 20 years. Get good overtime rates. (Time and half on saturday, Double time on Sunday). Drive nice cars. They even bought some BTLs a few years ago as they had built up enough equity in the main home. He told me most of them at the Factory have BTLs (most of the Indians anyway).

        £4000 a month is almost what a contractor on £400 a day (100K a year) will make if caught inside IR35.
        just because you come up with an extreme case where people are actually PAID OVERTIME. and do more than 40pw and manage (very optimistic situation) to earn 2k per month NET. and also they are a COUPLE with someone being in the same situation.

        I can guarantee you that those people probably don't own that much and just getting by on credit, financed cars. because people just like you, want to think that this world is a fair place, and that the position that they are in, maybe fortunate, is out of merit and not out of luck.


        also some people will do the craziest mental gymnastics just to prove they are right. Can't help amusing myself how you could go all the way to do that to prove a hypothetical case.


        now do the opposite for someone being single and on min wage, without OT. how does that work?

        £9ph 40hpw is £18720 gross per year or £1365 net. do you think where that kind of money put's you in many of the cities in the UK?

        ...

        on suicide watch.
        Last edited by GigiBronz; 25 August 2021, 13:09.

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post

          that part where you are wrong is that working and hard work in itself is a virtue.
          I think work IS a virtue, almost all of the time. Regardless of who benefits from the work in terms of receiving the money from its completion, what work produces is of value to people and makes their lives better.

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by ladymuck View Post

            That's a bit harsh on those countries that are trying to improve themselves.
            Well that pre-supposes that such third-world countries are trying to improve themselves. I would suggest that many are happy with the status quo.

            But my "scheme" should not adversely affect those countries (with the caveat that they have enough land to support the newcomers) because the solution is fiscally neural - the UK state benefits paid to these emigres would cover all their living expenses.

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by GJABS View Post

              I think work IS a virtue, almost all of the time. Regardless of who benefits from the work in terms of receiving the money from its completion, what work produces is of value to people and makes their lives better.
              then you've lived your entire life brainwashed by your corporate masters to believe an ideology that only benefits them. and now, with the benefits of age you do not have the courage to acknowledge it.

              no, work in itself is not a virtue. that is why we are hard wired to be lazy and avoid doing anything hard. we want to work with MEANING and do something constructive and creative. which you should be allowed considering our education education.
              BUT the corporate world offers you 40h min per week requirement and nonsense work to fill your time because your freedom would be detrimental to the system they have created.

              and no time off please, that is for scroungers and benefit cheats.

              have you read any material related to this subject, philosops, anthropologists etc? or are getting your information from your corporate homepage?

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by WTFH View Post

                Would "bone-idle shirkers" include those who live off the family inheritance in their manor houses, or just "make money" but not anything of real value?
                Those who live off inheritance don't generally claim benefits, so are not (directly) a drag on society.
                As to the second point, in a capitalist society if you make money, it is because someone has chosen to pay you. And that happens only when you've produced something they value for some reason.

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post

                  we want to work with MEANING and do something constructive and creative.
                  How do you define what is "constructive and creative"?
                  I would argue the only way to do this is to ask other people to pay you with their own money if they think you are offering this. = capitalism.

                  Looking back through history there are so many times when wealth is destroyed (communism, war, natural disaster etc) that I think we should grab hold of any and all opportunities to generate wealth while we can. It's a personal view, and I accept there is a moral philosophical angle to it too.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by GJABS View Post

                    Those who live off inheritance don't generally claim benefits, so are not (directly) a drag on society.
                    As to the second point, in a capitalist society if you make money, it is because someone has chosen to pay you. And that happens only when you've produced something they value for some reason.
                    so all the rich families that haven't done a day's of work in their life just because they have inherited land from 4-5 generations ago, some of them even on slavery, those are fair game.
                    but someone working a 50h week that barely affords food and rent should work harder because they do not provide enough value to the system.

                    I'm not a socialist but people have to acknowledge that there is a problem and before people are on the street protesting and we mess up another generation. Gen-Z is probably ****ed anyway alongside the millennials.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by GJABS View Post

                      Those who live off inheritance don't generally claim benefits, so are not (directly) a drag on society.
                      They also tend not to pay their fair share of tax, so they are a drag on society. Their contribution to society is minimal.
                      …Maybe we ain’t that young anymore

                      Comment

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