Contracts - Inside and outstide IR35

[Jayho]

Hi There, I am new to this forum. Can someone tell me if we can work on one contract with Inside IR35 and another with Outside IR35 at the same time using Umbrella (for Inside 35 contract ) and Limited Company (For Outside 35 contract) ?
Thank you in advance!

[TwoWolves]

Yes, just keep the accountant in the loop.

[northernladuk]

We've got multiple posts asking this in the professional part of the forum. Posting in General wasn't a good idea.

Yes and No. It is possible if both contracts allow you to have multiple clients. Reality is they won't. Legally/financially yes you can although you will need to get your accountant and umbrella to run the numbers for you as you are going to have to do some jiggery pokery to be as efficient as possible... but nothing wrong with doing two in parallel whatever the status. Rememeber your IR35 status is just a tax different. The work will be the same.

Problem you've got, particularly with the inside gig is it is likely the contract will ask for 9 to 5 and may involve the office as we move forward. Direction and control is one of the main pillars of IR35 so if you are inside you can expect they will want to control you. Going to be very difficult fitting another gig in when you are contracted 9 to 5, 8 hours a day or whatver. You are likely to end up working for Client B on Client A's time which won't go down well.

There are outside gigs that are on Statements of Work which will allow you to deliver what you want when you want but there aren't many of these. If it's a run of the mill contract it's likely that will also expect you 9-5, 8 hours whatever so again working on the other clients time.

IMO if you can't tell either client that you have another gig then you shouldn't be doing it. So can you run two 9 to 5 gigs in parallel then contractually no. There is a big difference between being a consutlancy with multiple clients and running two gigs and getting away with it because you are working from home and the other client doesn't know.

As per all the other threads someone will respond that is a little less black and white will come along and tell you you can but it's a bit of a mare juggling time so you don't have cancel meetings that clash and make excuses up etc. i.e it's possible to 'get away with it'.

[Jayho]

Yes, just keep the accountant in the loop.

Thank you

[Jayho]

We've got multiple posts asking this in the professional part of the forum. Posting in General wasn't a good idea.

Yes and No. It is possible if both contracts allow you to have multiple clients. Reality is they won't. Legally/financially yes you can although you will need to get your accountant and umbrella to run the numbers for you as you are going to have to do some jiggery pokery to be as efficient as possible... but nothing wrong with doing two in parallel whatever the status. Rememeber your IR35 status is just a tax different. The work will be the same.

Problem you've got, particularly with the inside gig is it is likely the contract will ask for 9 to 5 and may involve the office as we move forward. Direction and control is one of the main pillars of IR35 so if you are inside you can expect they will want to control you. Going to be very difficult fitting another gig in when you are contracted 9 to 5, 8 hours a day or whatver. You are likely to end up working for Client B on Client A's time which won't go down well.

There are outside gigs that are on Statements of Work which will allow you to deliver what you want when you want but there aren't many of these. If it's a run of the mill contract it's likely that will also expect you 9-5, 8 hours whatever so again working on the other clients time.

IMO if you can't tell either client that you have another gig then you shouldn't be doing it. So can you run two 9 to 5 gigs in parallel then contractually no. There is a big difference between being a consutlancy with multiple clients and running two gigs and getting away with it because you are working from home and the other client doesn't know.

As per all the other threads someone will respond that is a little less black and white will come along and tell you you can but it's a bit of a mare juggling time so you don't have cancel meetings that clash and make excuses up etc. i.e it's possible to 'get away with it'.

Thank you for the detailed info, very much appreciated for your time! thought so this might not be the correct area (General) to post, may be IR35 Tab would have been ideal, sorry about that!

I have one European contract currently which is outside IR 35 , in the process of getting an UK contract - Inside IR 35 (0.5 FTE) but need to work during US time zone (Alaska Daylight Time) which is 8 hours difference - which will not overlap.

I believe this should be fine.

Regards

[northernladuk]

Thank you for the detailed info, very much appreciated for your time! thought so this might not be the correct area (General) to post, may be IR35 Tab would have been ideal, sorry about that!

Well the subheading of General says 'All hope abandon ye who enter here. Seriously.' for very good reason. Business/Contracts or IR35 tab would have been much better yes.

I have one European contract currently which is outside IR 35 , in the process of getting an UK contract - Inside IR 35 (0.5 FTE) but need to work during US time zone (Alaska Daylight Time) which is 8 hours difference - which will not overlap.

Sounds like you could dovetail those two for sure but becareful not to burn out for the sake of 0.5 of an inside gig. I guess you'd just put that one all in the pension to be most tax efficient and carry on living off the outside one. Nothign wrong with running the inside one through a brolly and carry on as usual with the LTD. I assume you've got an accountant so best see if they can advise the best structure for you.

[Whorty]

Well the subheading of General says 'All hope abandon ye who enter here. Seriously.' for very good reason. Business/Contracts or IR35 tab would have been much better yes.


Sounds like you could dovetail those two for sure but becareful not to burn out for the sake of 0.5 of an inside gig. I guess you'd just put that one all in the pension to be most tax efficient and carry on living off the outside one. Nothign wrong with running the inside one through a brolly and carry on as usual with the LTD. I assume you've got an accountant so best see if they can advise the best structure for you.

If allowed, and for just 0.5FTE, wouldn't it just be easier to run the inside via the LTD too and let the accountant do the tax side? Cost can't be that different, and could then drop whole of inside income (less whatever taxes can't be offset) into personal pension rather than the brolly pension.

[northernladuk]

If allowed, and for just 0.5FTE, wouldn't it just be easier to run the inside via the LTD too and let the accountant do the tax side? Cost can't be that different, and could then drop whole of inside income (less whatever taxes can't be offset) into personal pension rather than the brolly pension.

I don't know but all the advice every given about inside gigs is just to go through brolly. And brolly's have moved on since you last looked at them. Many of them allow you to pay in to your own pension now.