J Corbyn and Iain Duncan Smith...

[Paddy]

Sadly for my mental wellbeing, I am on their side too.

There are already existing laws to restrain people who have infectious diseases and prevent them from roaming around infecting people. A vaccine passport system is rather a soft approach and a compromise. People do not have the right to roam around and potentially infect others when there are existing solutions available.

[OwlHoot]

... are on the same side. Over opposition to vaccine passports
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56605598

I'm sitting on the fence, because there's a strong possibility they will be retained for handy subsequent use in denying miscreants access to pubs and clubs, e.g. stamped "No Entry to Alcohol Venues" as part of an ASBO imposed for Drunk and Disorderly convictions, or even be a Trojan horse for introducing ID cards generally.

Mind you, the ASBO angle might be no bad thing.

Hmm, can't decide ..

[AtW]

"Entry to gyms, hotels, theatres and concerts is available to people who have a “green pass”, an app that proves people have been fully inoculated or have presumed immunity after contracting the disease.

In the coastal city of Tel Aviv, beaches have been packed for the Passover holiday. When the sun sets, thousands of people head to bars and restaurants. While indoor locations are supposed to scan people’s green pass, which has a QR code, many bars appear to assume their customers are immunised.

The green pass, launched last month and eyed as a potential strategy by countries such as Britain, has been credited with helping motivate unvaccinated Israelis to get the jab. At the Jerusalem arena, Avishag Buskila, 26, said the app was why she finally decided to do so.

“My parents were divided. My dad got vaccinated three months ago but my mum wanted to wait and see,” she said. Buskila, a law student, said she wanted to wait, but her university campus will open next week to students with green passes and she did not want to miss out.

“If I’m not vaccinated, I can’t go back to school. I’m sorry I didn’t do it earlier.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-covid-endgame

Israel leads the way

[AtW]

I'm sitting on the fence, because there's a strong possibility they will be retained for handy subsequent use in denying miscreants access to pubs and clubs, e.g. stamped "No Entry to Alcohol Venues" as part of an ASBO imposed for Drunk and Disorderly convictions

OMFG we can't have that - court ordered perps should have every right to be able to beat the system, viva la liberty!!!

[hairymouse]

“If I’m not vaccinated, I can’t go back to school. ”

Where I grew up in the states, if you weren't vaccinated for several typical diseases you couldn't go to any public schools. Nobody thought twice about it.

[Whorty]

You can't discriminate what parts of society a person is allowed to engage with. It's just fundamentally wrong in my opinion.

Pubs and bars do it every weekend. The number of times I've been turned away from a bar because I have the 'wrong shoes' on ....

If venues control numbers and spacing between patrons, with masks worn, then there should be none of this nonsense going on. How long would they expect to keep it up for? This virus isn't going away. It's a shameful proposition.

They can control numbers and spacing, and maybe be at 50% capacity. Or, they can insist on all patrons 'proving' they've have a vaccine and get to 80% (?) capacity and more turnover/profit. What do you think they'll go for if those are the 2 options?

Of course they'd prefer options 3, let as many in as possible and zero restrictions of any kind, but I don't think the government (rightly) will allow that.

[ladymuck]

Where I grew up in the states, if you weren't vaccinated for several typical diseases you couldn't go to any public schools. Nobody thought twice about it.

And if we had that here then I wouldn't be making a fuss because it would already be something that is normalised. Preventing access based on vaccination status isn't something I'm aware of in the UK, so I would expect it to be rolled out for all diseases that can be vaccinated against and are easily transmissable.

Instead, we will have a hotch-potch of venue types that will / will not allow access with very little reasoning behind it.

[ladymuck]

Discrimination is "prejudicial and unjust" separation of a group. Preventing the spread of a disease or any other factor impacting the population as a whole is not unjust or prejudicial.

If there is is discrimination in the proposal it is in favour of some commercial interests, mostly in entertainment. It is not against people.

I see where you're coming from. I'm not totally sure I agree but I'm going to think about it a while longer.

I didn't realise it was the pubs pushing for it; I seem to recall some complaining about admin burdens from taking people's details before letting them on the premises.

[ladymuck]

Pubs and bars do it every weekend. The number of times I've been turned away from a bar because I have the 'wrong shoes' on ....

This is true. I have learned that wearing flat shoes means I'm wearing trainers to some apes that police the doors.

They can control numbers and spacing, and maybe be at 50% capacity. Or, they can insist on all patrons 'proving' they've have a vaccine and get to 80% (?) capacity and more turnover/profit. What do you think they'll go for if those are the 2 options?

Of course they'd prefer options 3, let as many in as possible and zero restrictions of any kind, but I don't think the government (rightly) will allow that.

All venues are able to control numbers and spacing. They do it all the time. I don't see why they should allow higher capacity if all patrons are vaccinated as someone who got vaccinated yesterday still isn't fully 'charged'. So, they have to not only check if both doses have been given but how long since the second dose was administered.

Far easier to limit both the numbers of people at any one time plus the time spent in the venue, booked in advance to a dedicated time slot, with thorough cleaning regime in place.

[AtW]

I don't see why they should allow higher capacity if all patrons are vaccinated as someone who got vaccinated yesterday still isn't fully 'charged'.

Date of vaccination is known so digital app can display appropriate status only in 3 weeks past that date.