History of Allergic Reactions -

[clearedforlanding]

Sounds like they will be wanting to monitor people for at least 15 minutes after they get the jab to check for a reaction. (and not in some marquee in the middle of a race course)

...there's a rather amusing phone call going on right now where I have heard The Wife (tm) say "it's almost like we warned of the possibility" and "is this confirmed and has it been communicated to the CCGs?".

A few of the questions this has raised:
1. If these were HCPs who were known to have anaphylactic reactions to injections, then why were they selected for day 1 of delivery, given all the media watching?
2. Were these just cases of general anaphylaxis, or something specific to this vaccine?
3. Was the reaction just psychosomatic due to it being day 1 and a new vaccine?
4. They received the vaccine in hospitals, surrounded by trained staff who are all carefully monitoring the situation and have immediate access to the correct equipment. How does that compare with the StJA team being called who arrive with a small bottle of O2?
5. Should the monitoring be for 30min to 1 hour (or longer)?

1. Mrs CFL informs me that at her hospital the selective criteria are proximity & time spent with CV+ patients. No screening of medical records - just asked if they have had previous reactions to the flu jab. FFS.
2. We will find out quickly with this hit rate.
3. Can be checked with bloods. Next: UK blood testing over capacity.
4. Good point. I am allergic to Iodine (& one of my daughters to peanuts). I require biblical amounts of norepinephrine & hydrocortisone - way more than can be delivered by a EPI-PEN.
5. Completely dependent on how far away you are from someone who can administer norepinephrine & hydrocortisone.

[Paddy]

Sounds like they will be wanting to monitor people for at least 15 minutes after they get the jab to check for a reaction. (and not in some marquee in the middle of a race course)

...there's a rather amusing phone call going on right now where I have heard The Wife (tm) say "it's almost like we warned of the possibility" and "is this confirmed and has it been communicated to the CCGs?".

A few of the questions this has raised:
1. If these were HCPs who were known to have anaphylactic reactions to injections, then why were they selected for day 1 of delivery, given all the media watching?
2. Were these just cases of general anaphylaxis, or something specific to this vaccine?
3. Was the reaction just psychosomatic due to it being day 1 and a new vaccine?
4. They received the vaccine in hospitals, surrounded by trained staff who are all carefully monitoring the situation and have immediate access to the correct equipment. How does that compare with the StJA team being called who arrive with a small bottle of O2?
5. Should the monitoring be for 30min to 1 hour (or longer)?

When I have my seasonal flu jab, I am asked a list of health questions including do I have any allergies and have I had any
any adverse reactions in the past... etc.

[shaunbhoy]

Just a quick question, as well as being an expert on modern policing strategy, are you also medically qualified?

Do me a favour. She has yet to consistently work out what day of the week it is. SE is currently reliant on looking at the top page of her Grauniad.

[WTFH]

... I require biblical amounts of norepinephrine & hydrocortisone - way more than can be delivered by a EPI-PEN.
...Completely dependent on how far away you are from someone who can administer norepinephrine & hydrocortisone.

This might seem like an unrelated comment now, but maybe keep your eye on HYT Watches.

[vetran]

Sounds like they will be wanting to monitor people for at least 15 minutes after they get the jab to check for a reaction. (and not in some marquee in the middle of a race course)

...there's a rather amusing phone call going on right now where I have heard The Wife (tm) say "it's almost like we warned of the possibility" and "is this confirmed and has it been communicated to the CCGs?".

A few of the questions this has raised:
1. If these were HCPs who were known to have anaphylactic reactions to injections, then why were they selected for day 1 of delivery, given all the media watching?
2. Were these just cases of general anaphylaxis, or something specific to this vaccine?
3. Was the reaction just psychosomatic due to it being day 1 and a new vaccine?
4. They received the vaccine in hospitals, surrounded by trained staff who are all carefully monitoring the situation and have immediate access to the correct equipment. How does that compare with the StJA team being called who arrive with a small bottle of O2?
5. Should the monitoring be for 30min to 1 hour (or longer)?

You suggested the race course not me. I suggested the marquee as a solution to people getting cold. I did suggest the race course injection site would be for fit low risk frontline staff who could travel there from mainly London and needed the jab as they are frontline workers. I suggested we don't use the sites for infirm 80 year olds who should be done in a suitable setting preferably their care home/hospital bed or their GP or a an outpatients staffed with medical experts - which we don't have as every injection apparently needs 20 NHS staff.

If we are going to do 140 million injections some risks will need to be taken. Stupid risks shouldn't be taken though. So fit healthy 18-50 year olds i.e. those who are low risk (without serious allergies or illness for clarity) could be done in the mass injection sites, the more risky ones in hospital. This should be part of the planning the NHS should do, obviously it didn't.

As suggested the trained St John Ambulance /Red Cross guys should be backed up by a small number of trained medical staff but as we have so few of those because the NHS prefers to rob poorer countries of talent rather than train our own citizens and we need more boots on the ground lets use what we have. It actually seemed sensible we did the first few in large hospitals but we are expecting 139,998,001 more injections we can't do those all in a hospital with a cast of thousands.

Hopefully the medically trained volunteers will turn up with an epi pen or similar if that is the most sensible medical solution we have and get remote support to confirm its needed, via CCTV and two way communications with an expert in a central control centre that can cover 30 race courses.

If we don't do this we wont finish vaccinations till 2050 and most deaths will be down to untreated cancer etc mainly because only consultants can watch for negative reactions.

[vetran]

When I have my seasonal flu jab, I am asked a list of health questions including do I have any allergies and have I had any
any adverse reactions in the past... etc.

They didn't ask me last week.

Sort of like someone should have planned for this!

[clearedforlanding]

Might as well get ready now for hundreds of hysterical "side effect" articles over the next year. The fact is, when you treat perhaps 40m people in the space of a year, you are going to have tens of thousands of people get ill within a few days/weeks/months of the jab, thousands will die, some of them will die on the very next day, etc etc. All of which likely would have happened anyway, but people will convince themselves otherwise and blame the vaccine. It's unavoidable and really calls for a some press responsibility and restraint, which almost certainly won't happen.

We are talking about tens of thousands of vaccines in a couple of days here with a disproportionate number of strikes. Quite possibly a statistical anomaly, possibly not.

Personally I think that starting this on front line health workers is akin to applying a patch to your firewall OS without testing on a pre-prod devices, simply relying on the word of the vendor.

[SueEllen]

They didn't ask me last week.

Sort of like someone should have planned for this!

I wasn't asked when I had mine.

Whenever I've openly pointed out relevant medical history things they seem shocked.

[SueEllen]

Sounds like they will be wanting to monitor people for at least 15 minutes after they get the jab to check for a reaction. (and not in some marquee in the middle of a race course)

...there's a rather amusing phone call going on right now where I have heard The Wife (tm) say "it's almost like we warned of the possibility" and "is this confirmed and has it been communicated to the CCGs?".

A few of the questions this has raised:
1. If these were HCPs who were known to have anaphylactic reactions to injections, then why were they selected for day 1 of delivery, given all the media watching?
2. Were these just cases of general anaphylaxis, or something specific to this vaccine?
3. Was the reaction just psychosomatic due to it being day 1 and a new vaccine?
4. They received the vaccine in hospitals, surrounded by trained staff who are all carefully monitoring the situation and have immediate access to the correct equipment. How does that compare with the StJA team being called who arrive with a small bottle of O2?
5. Should the monitoring be for 30min to 1 hour (or longer)?

Page has been updated.

They had epipens. So shouldn't have been given the vaccination in the first place.

[clearedforlanding]

Page has been updated.

They had epipens. So shouldn't have been given the vaccination in the first place.

Yup. Importing vaccines != logistics, procedures & safeguards to administer them.