Suicides and the Loan Charge: Split from HMRC enquiries

[Old Greg]

Well, the govt have repeatedly denied it is retrospective.

Out of interest, do you have an example of a good retrospective law?

War Crimes Act 1991. Good in my opinion of course. Others may disagree.

The Australian War Crimes Act 1945 (Cth), amended by the War Crimes (Amendment) Act 1988 (Cth) created an offence of committing a war crime in Europe between 1 September 1939 and 8 May 1945. A person who is an Australian citizen or resident at the time of charge may be liable for the offence.

[DealorNoDeal]

The irony is that for years the dodgy loan brigade were saying that it didn't matter whether or not their practice was unfair, as long as it was legal. Then Parliament introduces a law to address the unfairness, and suddenly it's all about fairness and not about the law.

There's a further irony. I doubt a single one of these loan schemes would have actually stood up as legal if HMRC had taken them to court.

If you look at what all the legal action groups (like Big Group) are doing, they are not trying to claim that the schemes worked. On the contrary, they are accepting that it was disguised income but claiming that someone else (employer, agency, client) is liable for PAYE, and that users should get a tax credit.

I'm guessing you won't be amused if these groups succeed.

[Old Greg]

There's a further irony. I doubt a single one of these loan schemes would have stood up as legal if HMRC had actually taken them to court.

If you look at what all the legal action groups (like Big Group) are doing, they are not trying to claim that the schemes worked. On the contrary, they are accepting that it was disguised income but claiming that someone else (employer, agency, client) is liable for PAYE, and that users should get a tax credit.

I'm guessing you won't be amused if these groups succeed.

I'm not massively bothered either way what the outcome is. These groups are entitled to make a legal defence and also to campaign politically. It's the incessant whining about unfairness when none of them gave a hoot about fairly contributing to society that grates.

[DealorNoDeal]

I'm not massively bothered either way what the outcome is. These groups are entitled to make a legal defence and also to campaign politically. It's the incessant whining about unfairness when none of them gave a hoot about fairly contributing to society that grates.

Fair enough.

[Old Greg]

Fair enough.

Talking of ironies, I wonder if anyone has drawn the link between not paying taxes and underfunded mental health and suicide prevention services.

[AtW]

Talking of ironies, I wonder if anyone has drawn the link between not paying taxes and underfunded mental health and suicide prevention services.

But they claim they've paid all taxes legally due.

[Old Greg]

But they claim they've paid all taxes legally due.

So they should be content with the state of public services.

[NotAllThere]

I'm not massively bothered either way what the outcome is. These groups are entitled to make a legal defence and also to campaign politically. It's the incessant whining about unfairness when none of them gave a hoot about fairly contributing to society that grates.

Some of the people affected are low paid agency workers, who were recommended to use a scheme by their agents. Their stories have been reported from time to time in the press.

[AtW]

Some of the people affected are low paid agency workers, who were recommended to use a scheme by their agents.

Low paid as in how much - minimum wage or £500 per day?

[Old Greg]

Low paid as in how much - minimum wage or £500 per day?

And how much was loaned rather than paid.